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This is where South Fulton comes to talk on the web. Please add your name to your blog so that we may keep track of all the comments. Register to create a user name. You do not have to create a site. Visit http://www.southfultonliving.com for more information on what's going on in South Fulton County. If you want to continue an older topic select the November 2006 tab below.
81 comments:
Why do we need more government?
So Bill Edwards and Roger Bruce can maintain their power base.
Someone please help me to understand something...I have been reading the blog on a regular basis...keeping the posting in order...everyone seem to get!...Please tell me how did the Commissioner from the 7th get 75% of the vote for re-election? Please help me break the code...because the other 25% of us just may be in a boat without a paddle working upstream...
“The Clean Slate”
Our vision and goal is to monitor our own elected African-American and Black American officials from our own communities, for accountability after they are elected to office.
We plan to check accountability by monitoring voting records, and voting patterns. We plan to publish how money is raised for re-election and from whom contributed to their re-election campaigns. We are non-partisian! We will hold our politicians up to a high standard of integrity, honesty and dignity! When our representatives are not reflective of the high values that we as a community live by, the Clean Slate will raise the funds necessary to oppose their re-election. The Clean Slate will contribute to the qualifying fee to oppose that incumbent with a Clean Slate candidate that does represent our community with honesty, integrity and character!
To all that have read this…please think about the idea…how do you feel about movement…good, bad?
From Andre,
The City of South Fulton suffers a setback...
...Yesterday, Judge T. Jackson Bedford dismissed a lawsuit filed by the South Fulton Concerned Citizens to overturn the 13,000-plus acres annexed by the existing municipalities in South Fulton prior to the October 30th deadline imposed by SB552, the City of South Fulton legislation.
"A Fulton County judge refused Tuesday to overturn a wave of annexations that has seen more than 13,000 acres south of Atlanta taken into cities.
In dismissing a lawsuit filed by a group of local activists, Fulton Superior Court Judge T. Jackson Bedford said he believed the law setting up two proposed south Fulton cities intended to let the existing cities add to their boundaries before the new cities can be created." [Source: 11/22/2006 AJC article "Judge upholds south Fulton annexations"]
Here are links to the annexations done by Union City, Fairburn, and Palmetto. Right now, I think that a new feasibility study should be done on the proposed City of South Fulton taking into account the annexations that have been upheld by Judge Bedford. The major question on my mind is whether a City of South Fulton can survive without the land that was gobbled up by the existing cities, and I think that any feasibility study done now should include an answer to that question.
If the City of South Fulton can remain fiscally solvent, while keeping taxes at current levels, and not cutting the level of existing services provided by Fulton County, then I still believe that incorporation is a good idea. However, if a City of South Fulton runs deficits and has to cover those deficits by either raising taxes or cutting services, then I believe that we should re-think a new City of South Fulton.
Plain and simple, a new feasibility study is needed to examine all the facts, both new and old.
posted by Andre
http://georgiaunfiltered.blogspot.com/2006/11/city-of-south-fulton-suffers-setback.html
2 billion development proposed in Roswell
By PAUL KAPLAN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 11/28/06
The man who brought Atlantic Station to midtown Atlanta unveiled plans Tuesday for the largest development project ever in Roswell.
Charlie Brown wants to build a mixed-use minicity valued at up to $2 billion on 107 acres that straddle the east side of Ga. 400 at Holcomb Bridge Road in the heart of north Fulton County.
The plan features several high-rise towers for both residential and commercial uses, mostly in the 20- to 30-story range. The tradeoff is an abundance of greenspace across the entire project, Brown told nearly 200 members of the Greater North Fulton Chamber of Commerce who attended a packed breakfast meeting at the DoubleTree Hotel in Roswell.
Roswell has no high-rises and no zoning for them, so that will be one of Brown's biggest hurdles as he tries to convince the city that this is direction in which it ought to go.
I have beed waiting for 15+ years now for this area some call the crown jewel to get a piece of the action...do you think the reason we are still waiting is because we have a racist majority black Fulton County Board of Commissioners?
Hey Kramer,
Do you have any empirical evidence that the lack of quality development has anything to do with the racial make up of the commission or your allegations of racism?
You know like specific zoning cases denied, and the vote tallies?
If not do not make inflammatory and baseless contentions without anything to back them up.
Spare us your victim mentality and seek another scapegoat Bubba.
The truth often does hurt!!!!!
Kramer is no different than John Lewis!!!!
Based on a number of publications South Fulton is the HOT SPOT in Fulton County and metro Atlanta right now.
For instance -- 1) Development at 92 & SF Pkwy includes Home Depot and Publix.
2) Across the street in what is stolen land by Union City there is Union City Commons 101 acres to be developed with two large anchor stores, several major stores and numerous outlot parcels for stand alone restaurants and shops.
3) Yet across from there more development on the Hall Road side of 92.
4) Shops at Hampton Oaks - 92 and Butner Road a Drug Store, Retail Shops, Day Care and Possible Restaurant
5) Jones and Cedar Grove Road Proposed RETAIL - 237,600 SQUARE FEET OFFICE - 79,200 SQUARE FEET & MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL - 44 UNITS
6) Stonewall Tell and SF Pkwy - Three of the four corners are being commercially developed
RE #2 Stolen land? What law was broken James? This emotional characterization tarnished an otherwise great post.
James...get you head out of the ground...Who know the difference between big box and bringing busines that produce jobs that pay $20 hour or 50k + per year. Are these places that u will work? You guys think the way to build a community if to have a store to buy food and clothes... all you are continuning to do is to build a bedroom community... building a Old National Hwy...where is you guys vision...get real, where are the Hyatts or the Shearton's?... please.This is not how you build a community....your 1 thru 6 is not the life line required to take pressure of taxes off the backs of homeowners!!!Where is Furtune 1000 Corporate America? Check out the blue print for Sandy Springs please!
To all that read this...We are you as a community going to start ask questions about the FULTON COUNTY JAIL...The issues is not going away...get your heads out of the sand black people! 95% of the inmates are black just kike us!
When James first began the South Fulton Blog site, it really was interesting and fun to read about the different points of view and different ideas about the future and vision for Unincorporated South Fulton County. For whatever reason, since the residents and contributors to the South Fulton Blog got all caught up in the Incorporation fever and annexation to the City of Atlanta, and the Sandtown Steering Committee stirred the pot, neighbor against neighbor, and on top of all that, didn't even make the cut, and now Reunion Place, Regency Park and Guilford Forest are subject to higher taxes, less service and their children will be bussed to City of Atlanta schools, the vehemance is rising to the top and all logic is out the window. Let's remain Unincorporated, don't add the cost of another layer of government, maintain our SSDs, fight for our fair share of the 2007 Budget (the North folks still want our share of the money)and wait for the new Study with a current assessment of the fiscal and financial soundness and future of Unincorporated South Fulton County. Judge Bedford based his decision on the fact that the legislation in SB 552 is flawed, and needs to be corrected by the State Legislature. Let's get our facts straight by attending the meetings, going to Court, being a part of the Budget Process and attentive and active participants in the Board of Commission meetings, instead of dogs who bring and carry bones. And let's make the Blog interesting, informative and fun again. SWFulton
No sure what you mean by FUN! These issues are nothing to have fun with!
By the way...If you don't know you better ask somebody...there is no SWFulton...It's all unincorperated south fulton county.
So the "South Fulton Concerned Citizens" did not stir the pot? I love revisionist history.
Why don't we save time and call the new SF city Lithonia. Then we can use the same bankruptcy filings.
>>>James...get you head out of the ground...Who know the difference between big box and bringing busines that produce jobs that pay $20 hour or 50k + per year. Are these places that u will work? You guys think the way to build a community if to have a store to buy food and clothes... all you are continuning to do is to build a bedroom community... building a Old National Hwy...where is you guys vision...get real, where are the Hyatts or the Shearton's?... please.This is not how you build a community....your 1 thru 6 is not the life line required to take pressure of taxes off the backs of homeowners!!!Where is Furtune 1000 Corporate America? Check out the blue print for Sandy Springs please!<<<
Check out the blue print for Sandy Springs!!???
FYI Sandy Springs came about because money from South Fulton built it! Fulton Industrial Blvd was the largest and most profitable industrial area east of the Mississippi in the 70's, 80's and beginning of the 90's. The tax dollars that were generated there were used by Fulton County to build out Sandy Springs.
Look around you, that money was not spent in South Fulton that is why it is still rather undeveloped.
As for the retail development that is planned you need those types of developments to sustain a community. Without them the other entities would not seek to join you.
As for "stolen land". It is stolen. Under what rationale would Union City want with that much of the Parkway? They took it to hamper the potential of a new rival city. Property tax grab. They can't maintain it because they don't have the capacity to do so. They are running speed traps on the Parkway as we speak.
Otis, I wrote on this site earlier this year about the scenario of Buckhead deannexing itself from Atlanta and Fulton County. I was told I was nuts. Doesn't sound so nuts now, does it.
James
IS this the Diamond or Jewel that everyont is talking about...South Fulton...How long has this been going on and Fulton County Government and our County Commissioners have sat back and done nothing? This does make S.F a great to live, work, worship and raise a family...No accountability! Harry King
ajc.com > Metro > Atlanta
Fear and doubt cloak residents exposed to noxious fume
By KEVIN DUFFY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 12/21/06
When his mixed collie died this month, Paul Brady wondered whether it was old age — Lad, after all, was 12 — or something more sinister.
Lad's body is now frozen at a nearby veterinarian's office while Brady tries to find a lab to run tests. He's curious whether his pet's death is linked to Philip Services Corp., a nearby plant that treats industrial waste.
Others in the Fairburn area of south Fulton County have similar concerns.
What about the dead koi in Dyan Matthews' pond and the 150,000 bees that disappeared from Ed Mellon's farm? Or Lina Pitts' Maltese, Kodi, that suddenly died over the summer?
"We don't want to sound like kooks running around yelling 'chemical plant!' " said Carroll Hightower, a grandmother of seven who now tells dinner guests to bring their own water. But residents fear their environment's been poisoned, despite assurances from the state and the company that it has not.
In late June, an onionlike odor emanated from the plant, and hundreds of people complained of illness.
The Georgia Division of Public Health reviewed more than 600 exposure reports and concluded the accident probably caused some sickness. But the state's Environmental Protection Division and the federal Environmental Protection Agency didn't find any hazardous chemical contamination.
"People should be not be subjected to this kind of exposure," said John Horan, an epidemiologist with the public health department. "But the exposure, as far as we can tell, is over now."
Many residents, though, aren't so certain.
Mellon, for one, is mystified why four beehives were deserted. Thousands of bees flew out and never came back. The hives, he said, were all facing the plant.
"I've never lost bees at that time of the year before," Mellon said. "And why bees facing only in that direction?" Five other hives elsewhere on his property were unfazed, he said.
Mellon and his wife, Henrietta, live in a brick ranch home on a small rise off Ga. 92, a short walk from Philip Services.
Their pond, next to the Leyland cypress, Carolina sapphire and silverdust Christmas trees, attracts geese and heron, and sometimes coyote.
The Fairburn area's steely industrial character also looms. Power lines run through Mellon's land like a zipper, an unavoidable reminder that warehouses, 18-wheelers and a waste treatment plant are part of the fabric, too.
A few miles away, Matthews' pond used to teem with more than 100 koi. Then in late July they began floating to the top, when the odor controversy was at its peak.
"I couldn't figure out how the koi could up and die," said the chief of staff for Fulton Commissioner Bill Edwards, a Philip Services opponent. "They were healthy."
Then again, the pond pump hadn't worked for a year.
"It could be the pump," Matthews said. "I honestly don't know."
At a recent town hall meeting organized by a task force that wants to see the plant closed, Jim Ussery, the EPD's assistant director, and Horan, the epidemiologist, tried to reassure residents, but their remarks were met with groans.
"I know how the people feel," Ussery said. "But I have not been able to establish any hard link I can really use. If we didn't think the plant was safe, we wouldn't allow it to operate."
Philip Services manager Paul Butsavage said in an e-mail the plant is "not a threat to public health."
After the odor outbreak this summer, Buckhead waiter Byron Word put his 3-year-old house up for sale. He lives in the Milam Manor II subdivision next to the plant, which is hidden behind a thick buffer of trees.
"I'm more afraid of something coming from there than an outside criminal coming in," Word said, sitting on the floor at his home and playing with his 2-year-old daughter, Samara. She cried over the summer when the onionlike smell irritated her eyes. "There's no telling what's going on," he said. "It's always in the back of your mind."
Pitts, his neighbor, argued the state is putting the company's interests ahead of hers. She said she's suffered coughing, chest pains, vomiting and diarrhea, and now has asthma. Kodi, her 1-year-old Maltese, developed similar symptoms and died.
"We don't know how long we've been exposed," she said.
Residents are owed a more thorough investigation, Edwards, the Fulton commissioner, said.
"Here's the deal. If the EPA and EPD say it's not the plant, then what the heck is it?" he asked. "It's their job to find out — why are they sick?"
Find this article at:
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2006/12/20/1221metscare.html
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Check the box to include the list of links referenced in the article.
For Mr. King everything that is wrong with S Fulton is because of some elected official. Or it just seems that way?
Sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference between ignorance or stupidity. I happened to be driving west on Cascade Road from I-285, and noticed the "gateway" monument sign "WELCOME TO SOUTHWEST FULTON" in front of the "SOUTHWEST REGIONAL LIBRARY" on the way to the "SOUTHWEST ART CENTER". Talk about revisionist history, these magnificent events and landmarks occured, along with the passage of the first Overlay District Regulations inacted in Fulton County, when Commission District 5 extended south to Camp Creek Parkway. HUMMMMM! SWFulton
SWFulton - your point escapes at least one BLOG reader. Is the is a comment about Emma or Bill? What do you think they should be called as there is already a South Fulton Arts Center that name was taken when the arts center was built on New Hope. The library has always been named the Southwest Regional library.
Make it plain please!
The point is, back in the day, there was a community known as Southwest Fulton, with its own history, character and uniquely different from South Fulton. Not to mean better, just different. Please see Dec 8 and 9 comments.
I agree that community known as Southwest Fulton, with its own history and character is uniquely different from South Fulton and much more like the neighboring parts of Atlanta.
Politicos seeking a new powerbase wanted to lump West Cascade and Sandtown into the mix to make a city of South Fulton financially viable. The so called South Fulton Concerned Citizens have suffered recent setbacks in creating a new city, but don't care whether incorporation benefits SW Fulton or not.
It will be interesting to monitor the latest positions of our elected officials and their posturing and flip flopping.
SFCC is still planning to challenge their losses in court to overturn the annexations and create a city by any means necessary. Here are their meeting minutes from their website:
South Fulton Concerned Citizens Meeting Minutes
Minutes, December 14, 2006
Present: Rex Renfrow, Chuck Miller, Tom Reed, George Nicholson, Storm Mitchell, Michael Venable, Denise Robb, Gayle Lesser, Andre Walker, Holman Edmond, Ben Dye, Dorothy Harris, Bruce Moody, Benny Crane.
Mr. Renfrow opened the meeting.
Mr. Renfrow reported on a December 6 meeting with representatives from the law firm of Balch and Bingham, the lobbying firm of Massey and Bowers, South Fulton legislators, and Dr. Robert Eger. Topics discussed were the SFCC lawsuit to nullify the annexations of the existing cities and the coming legislative session.
Regarding the lawsuit, at the November 21 hearing Judge T. Jackson Bedford dismissed SFCC’s motion for injunctive relief, stating that he prefers the appellate court to rule on the matter. He has not yet issued a certificate that allows us to appeal the issue to the Court of Appeals. After discussion of the pros and cons of an appeal, the consensus was that we should proceed once the Judge issues such a certificate. In the interim SFCC will go forward with working for the new city.
Mr. Renfrow will undertake fundraising for the legal effort.
Mr. Renfrow also reported on a December 13 meeting with Michael Bowers and Roger Bruce regarding the upcoming legislative session. The decision was made not to open SB 552 in the session. Horacena Tate will sponsor the bills relating to annexation of the Fulton Industrial district and freeport for the new city; Mr. Edmond, Mr. Crane, and Mr. Walker will provide legislative support.
Mr. Renfrow noted the importance of protecting the South Fulton Parkway by transferring it to the Georgia Department of Transportation. Mr. Mitchell will check on the status of the application.
Mr. Crane stressed that SFCC should begin preparing the campaign for the referendum on the new city. There was some discussion of strategies for marketing the new city and securing voter turnout at the referendum.
In January SFCC will begin work on the business plan for the new city. Mr. Renfrow recommended that attendees read Creating the New City of Sandy Springs by Oliver Porter as preparation. Dr. Eger will create a schedule to complete the business plan by April.
The meeting was adjourned.
http://southfultonconcernedcitizens.org/current_minutes.htm
Given the dynamics of change created by the incorporation of Sandy Springs, Milton and Johns Creek, many residents of south Fulton no longer desire to stay as unincorporated Fulton County. Also, now with over 13,000 acres of the most economically viable portions of south Fulton already annexed, few residents are desirous of creating a new city of South Fulton, which has no real commercial or industrial tax base.
You should advocate giving residents in south Fulton an option to join Atlanta in a referendum as opposed to only having the option to choose to create a new city of South Fulton on the ballot in June 2007. This choice of joining Atlanta should have been provided when the legislation was drafted giving residents the right to choose to create a new city, but was not.
Providing a choice for residents to join Atlanta should not be thought of as a loss for Fulton County, but as an additional opportunity to create a more efficient Fulton County. Fulton County should look at the economic efficiencies and synergies of consolidating many of its services with Atlanta. For example, fire stations for Fulton County and Atlanta are within walking distances of one another in the midwest Cascade area. Why not consolidation? Minimize the politics and work toward real economic solutions for everyone. With the loss of revenue from the incorporations in the north, consolidation of services makes even more sense. Let's work toward providing a choice for residents to join Atlanta if they so desire and also in creating a more economically efficient Fulton County through a consolidation of services between Fulton and Atlanta.
James Harris, Atlanta
Right on Ms. White!!!
James...since you seem to know what I think...what about YOU giving the audience your "STATE OF UNINCORPERATED SOUTH FULTON COUTY" address! I am pulling mine together and will post when completed. Put you words where your mouth is!
Harry King
Mr. King, my point is you are angry at all elected officials for whatever reason. Channel your energies to something more constructive.
The state of Unincorporated South Fulton is incomplete. We've lost some valuable land, yet we've gained new converts to its beauty.
The schools aren't the best yet. We can't seem to get beyond "throwing more money" at the problems of public education. I believe its time we take a hard look at what works and what doesn't. If teachers would teach and students learn and parents parent we'd be better for it.
Though we don't face a tax increase this year we will have 23 or 25 new police officers and fire fighters respectively, on the payroll this year. Public safety will be enough to deal with the issues.
Our Parks are being run by volunteers and no new parkland has been purchased to relieve the overburden park programs. I believe this will eventually be our undoing with or without a new city or annexation or remaining unincorporated. Our children have no where to go and eventually will take up crime as a past time. We can work with them now or work with them later as they are entering the criminal justice system.
Our roads are holding up but that only a matter of time. Along with the neglect that has over taken our park land this too will come back to haunt us. The cost is going to be massive.
A moratorium on "cheap" constructed subdivisions is way beyond needed. If a zoning request is not for a commercial entity it should be denied until further notice. We need to get all the planned projects out of the ground before embarking upon newer dense projects.
We must fight to save the character of the small farms and property of those that aren't interested in being closed in by cookie cutter subdivisions.
In addition, real dialogue needs to be undertaken to review the pros and cons of creating more government. Local control is only local if you are happy with it.
My vision for South Fulton is not a megatropolis but a serene existence where large tracts of land are preserved for the wildlife that once freely roamed the area. Children receive top notch education. Parents are free of worry while their children frolic in one of two large parks. Development is under control and bad builders are banned.
This is a start right off the top of my head.
Yes I am angry at all of elected officials...I will continue to hold them accountable and not give them a pass...while your business is to make excuseS for your elected officials...I hold the county commissioners accountable, they are the ones that make and pass laws and are suppose to represent all of the people...you pass them all you want...I AM MAD AS HELL AND NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE...I CHALLENGE ALL THAT READ THIS TO CALL YOUR COMMISSIONER EVERY DAY AND ASK WHY they did what the did...DO NOT BE AFRIED TO STAND UP TO THE PERSON THAT HOLD OFFICE! WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU QUESTIONEd YOUR COUNTY COMMISSIONER IN PERSON, IN WRITING, BY FAX OF PHONE...YOU MAY BE SUPRISE TO SEE THAT SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS THAT YOU VOTED FOR HAVE ANGER MANAGEMENT ISSUES WHEN IS COMES TO BEING CHALLENGED ON THEIR DECISIONS.
last comment posted by Harry King to James (what ever your last name is)...reveal yourself...
Harry King
4035 Lendy Ln
Atlanta, Ga 30349
Unincorperated South Fulton County - Dist. 7
404-580-0532.
Mr. King
My name is James Reese, Jr. and I started the website southfultonliving.com and later this blog to allow people to have their say. Where I live has nothing to do with anything. If you have to know I live in S. Fulton.
Sorry but my privacy is important to me and my family.
From Jim Wooten of the AJC Opinion Section:
• Fulton County commissioners find themselves with excess collections of $90 million. What to do? “We are going to do a little bit of everything,” said Commissioner Bill Edwards. “I’m happy, man. The money’s there. It’s just a matter of what we spend it on.” And we wonder why Milton County beckons.
Milton County beckons to be "free" to only associate with "whites only". That's the truth. If you think it's anything else then you have your head in the sand.
Since North Fulton is now fully incorporated there is little that Fulton County can do for or do to them. The remaining mandated functions are justice and health/social programs. If they think they are going to get out of funding Grady and MARTA then they are really naive.
1/24/07
To: Chairman – Fulton County Board of Commissioners
From: Harry King – President,
Thaxton Pointe Homeowners Association
4035 Lendy Ln. Atlanta Ga. 30349-1788
Subject: State of the Fulton County Jail
The taxpayers, people, and community are the voters that make up the constituency of Fulton County, Ga. We request from the Fulton County Board of Commissioners a report indicating, the state today, tomorrow and plans for the future of the Fulton County Jail, including any alternative proposed plans.
We recognize and fully understand that you as County Commissioners must be held accountable for the situation as it exists today at the jail. Rightly so, you are proud to point out to us that you are the ones that approve and control the budget! We feel very, very strongly that accountability and ownership is jointly shared between the Sherriff and you the Board of Commissioners.
We respectfully request that you develop and present an official white paper from the Board of Commissioners that gives us an understanding of what is currently evolving and what we can expect regarding all the issues concerning the future of the jail. As we all have observed, the Sherriff makes his reports to the Board of Commissioners but the BOC has never made a report to the community, taxpayers, and constituents of Fulton County Ga.
The report to the community could be posted on the Fulton County web site and on each individual commissioner’s web site.
We as taxpaying, voters of Fulton County consider this issue to be of great importance and of a highly urgent nature.
Thank you for you consideration and cooperation in this matter
Respectfully,
Harry King, Jr – Unincorporated South Fulton County – Dist. 7
Cc:Mayors: Alpharetta, Roswell, ATL, Mountain Park
Cc:Mayors:Sandy Springs, College Park, East Point
Cc:Mayors:Fairburn, Palmetto, Union City, Milton, Johns Creek
Cc:Fulton County State Delegation, FulCo BOC Dist. 2,3,4,5,6,7
Sandtown will be annexed into Atlanta. I agree with James NO ONE HAS ENOUGH WATER IN THEIR OWN POOLS TO SWIM. Let's no be assisnine and TRY to create a pool that will be bone and lifeless, its not sensible people. Please understand that south fulton county (in particular my neck of the woods, Sandtown) cannot support ourselves as a 'independant' city. Sandy Springs still isn't totally 'independant' and they had the infrastructure in place for years.
Futhermore, I am not originally from Atlanta ,or Georgia for that matter, so I don't know much about this political scene, but its getting in the way of your childrens future livelihood, period. You all need to vote rationally whenever you go to vote for what you want to be; I PRAY that Atlanta will annex us in. Any other option besides being annexed into Atlanta--is A JOKE! HA!
“City” means city
Some of my blogging friends have been doing quotes of the day lately. I spotted this jewel in the AJC:
Milton, a community of horse farms, golf courses and mansions, decided to become its own city last year in order to limit growth and its effects.
Dear Milton,
If you wanted to limit growth, why would you become a city? You’ve just created a new layer of bureaucracy that you have to support on your own. And the city council is going to deal with budgeting issues every year. To solve those issues, they need tax revenue. To get tax revenue, they will from now to forever have to worry about the community’s economic development.
Your real misfortune was not that you are located in the northern sticks of Fulton County. Oh no. Your misfortune comes from the 1983 Georgia Constitution. From the New Georgia Encyclopedia:
Counties are allowed to provide:
—police and fire protection
—garbage and solid waste collection and disposal
—public health facilities and services, including hospitals, ambulances, emergency rescue, and animal control
—street and road construction, including curbs, sidewalks, and street lights
—parks, recreational areas, facilities, and programs
—storm-water and sewage collection and disposal systems
—water utilities
—public housing
—public transportation
—libraries, archives, and arts/sciences programs and facilities
—terminal and dock facilities and parking facilities
—codes, including building, housing, plumbing, and electrical codes
—air quality control
—planning and zoning
These supplementary powers address citizens’ demands to improve and maintain the state’s quality of life. Cities and towns have long offered these services, but they were seldom seen outside the urban environment.
What does it all mean? It means every county can effectively be a city. It means every city will forever be dysfunctional because their ability to grow, and their ability to provide effective and efficient services will be hampered because county governments are already providing municipal services.The change in the Georgia Constitution was made because — like the god damn babies they always have been and always will be — Georgia’s rural and suburban citizens wanted to have their cake and eat it, too. “Waa! I want my bucolic setting, and I want my municipal services, too! And keep my taxes low, while you’re at it!”
Now, Milton, you are among those suffering the consequences. Tough luck.
Fellow metro Atlanta citizens, you reap what you sow. You associated the City of Atlanta with crime, corruption, and a generally unbucolic setting. Rather than doing something about it, you decided it better to vote with your feet and run away from the problems. That’s not how problems go away. It should be no suprise that they follow you when you vote with your feet.
The few among you who voted in 1983 had the chance to keep counties as counties and cities as cities. You were sold a tax-hungry sham. You could have kept Atlanta within its city limits. And you could have had a chance to have some power of your own in seeing Atlanta’s problems fixed — complete with a more powerful way to vote: by kicking out dirty politicians.
Let the City of Atlanta expand its borders, and its balance of power will shift faster than you can say “gentrification.” Stop forming new cities and counties — you will solve nothing. You will cause more problems for yourselves. You will try to not grow, which will force your fellow crybabies to move further out and settle more of the countryside. And they will clog your roads. And you will have no money to widen your roads that you worked so hard to avoid having to widen.
Today, you take your municipal services for granted, and you pretend that you pay more in taxes than you get back. Your utilities and infrastructure, which were built to allow you to live out in the middle of boringland, are expensive. No matter to what extent federal and state governments subsidize your infrastructure, you ultimately pay for these things with your taxes. People of Pretend-Milton County: You reap what you sow.
Congratulations on creating your own problems.
*South Fulton are you next?
If you want to be annexed into Atlanta. I have a easier solution - MOVE. Princeton Lakes is rocks throw away. You can have your cake and eat it too.
As for townships - I like the idea it speaks to what everyone is worried about - growth.
Is there a way to introduce a bill that prevents more annexations in South Fulton if the referendum fails? At least until, a decision on townships is adopted and voted on as the best next option.
2/6/07
TO: State Representative Bob Holmes
FAX – 404.656.0250
From: Harry King – President, Thaxton Pointe HOA
Founder, The Clean Slate
4035 Lendy Ln
Atlanta, Ga. 30349
Unincorporated South Fulton County
Subject: The Fulton County Jail
We are very, very much concerned of the entire dysfunction that we as Fulton County taxpayers have, of accountability at the Fulton County jail!
The budget of the jail is 86 million dollars. You pay taxes like us Bob! You know the history better that anyone!
Please think about, and then introduce legislation that will bring some reality to this unacceptable situation.
I had a conversation with John Sherman with the Fulton County Taxpayers Assoc. His suggestion is to have the Sherriff’s office accountable to the County Manager. I suggest accountability should be with the Finance Department of Fulton County.
What does matter is that we need some help from the Fulton County Delegation to bring some sanity to the entire Fulton County Sherriff’s Department in Fulton County Ga.
Respectfully,
Harry King
404.714.1221 (o)
404.344.6480 (h)
404.580.0524 ©
Mr. King, the sheriff is a constitutional officer of the state. They can't just change the structure in FC. It will have to be done all over the state and that most likely will not happen.
Mr James...A idea begins with a dream. If you do not stand for something, YOU will fall for anything!!!Once upon a time, we as black people were told we would never, never have the right to vote...Since that time we have had 3 Black people to run for President of the USA...No we will have a 4th...Barack Obama!...Please do not bring your defeatism opinion to the blog.
Harry King, Jr.
There you go again
Two more deputies sue Fulton sheriff
By Rhonda Cook
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/10/07
Two more jail deputies have sued Fulton Sheriff Myron Freeman for allegedly violating their privacy and trying to punish them for taking time off work according to the requirements of the federal Family Medical Leave Act.
Capt. Bonita Wallace filed suit Friday, just a week after deputy Carolyn Chizer filed against Freeman, Chief of Staff John Gibson and other Sheriff's Office employees. The suit also names Gibson's consulting company, Nosy By Nature. Gibson was a consultant at the jail agency until this week when he became a county employee.
"There's a pattern of intimidation to try to keep employees of the Sheriff's Office from utilizing the Family Medical Leave Act," said attorney John Rutkowski, who also filed a suit against the men last month for Sgt. Jeffrey Moffit.
The Sheriff's Office referred requests for comment to the county attorney, who did not return telephone calls Friday afternoon.
According to the suit, Gibson sent deputies to Wallace's house at 3 a.m. on an unspecified day to retrieve her county-issued gun and identification. The suit said the deputies woke her to get the items even though the Sheriff's Office "does not have a policy of relieving" employees on approved medical leave of their guns and identification cards.
Wallace returned to work Jan. 15 but her weapon and ID still have not been returned, the lawsuit said. At the same time, the suit said, Wallace's work hours were changed "drastically" and one week, for example, she was assigned to work all three shifts instead of one time slot each day.
When she returned to work, Wallace was immediately suspended without pay for five days because she had not ensured that a floor in an area of the jail was waxed last August. According to the suit, Wallace told Freeman wax would not adhere because of the type of material used in the floor.
Chizer claimed in her suit that a uniformed deputy was sent to her private doctor's office to find out details about the medical condition that allowed her to take unpaid leave according to federal law.
Chizer said Gibson sent a deputy to her doctor's office with instructions to "intimidate" the physician into providing "confidential" medical information.
She said the action embarrassed her and caused "extreme emotional distress" when he invaded her privacy."
Posted by Harry....
Newsflash: The South Fulton Concerned Citizens have started an active campaign for a New City of South Fulton. Aren't you surprised that after over a year of "analysis", they reached that conclusion. LOL
Maybe now they'll crunch some numbers and try to actually persuade us a new city won't end up bankrupt.
Local control of an empty piggyback is not something I want.
Though I'm a skeptic. Governments are designed to spend everything they collect in taxes, thus a balanced budget. Where I'm disappointed is I can't identify the "vision".
There's more to this than just controlling your destiny. Where's the vision for kicking up the commercial tax base? What about rebuilding and expanding the parks? I'm more concerned about the lack of adequate parks than anything. Why? I have children.
There was a mention of an educational czar. That's an interesting idea. Whether he or she should be on the city payroll from the start, I don't know. That's another political body anyway.
Sheriff's attorney wants federal monitor out
By RHONDA COOK
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/14/07
Fulton County Sheriff Myron Freeman's attorney has demanded the resignation of a federal monitor appointed to oversee mandated improvements at the troubled county jail.
If Patrick McManus doesn't resign, the attorney, Randy Turner, informed the monitor in a letter dated Jan. 31 that the sheriff will ask U.S. District Judge Marvin Shoob to fire him because of the "level of mistrust" between McManus and Freeman's staff.
McManus, a jail and prison expert with 40 years' experience, fired back a letter to Turner.
"I will not resign lest anyone interpret that action as my being intimidated by your heavy-handed attempt to bully an officer of the court," McManus wrote.
The request for a federal monitor to resign is unusual.
"I've heard of monitors resigning, but not under attack by one of the parties," Shoob said.
Shoob, who appointed McManus, said Tuesday he backs his monitor. "I have full confidence in Mr. McManus," the judge said.
The jail has a history of overcrowding and mismanagement that preceded Freeman's election in 2004, the same year inmates filed a federal lawsuit claiming the jail was dangerous and violated their constitutional rights.
Shoob last year approved a settlement in the suit that was contingent on the sheriff, whose office runs the jail, making improvements in a reasonable length of time. A consent order capped the number of inmates, established minimum staffing levels, required timely releases of inmates and called for $55 million in renovations.
McManus was chosen to oversee the reform efforts. McManus, who lives in Minnesota, report back to Shoob but his trips to Atlanta have been limited to three days every three months. Since the consent order was signed, McManus and the lawyers who filed the suit have complained several times about the lack of information and the shortage of detail the jail has provided.
The terse exchange of letters were the most recent salvo in the ongoing battle between the sheriff and his staff and McManus and others charged with documenting the sheriff's compliance with the consent order.
The sheriff is supposed to file regular reports on jail conditions, including such information as how long it takes to release inmates and whether there are enough guards in the cellblocks.
In recent months, the monitor has questioned "assertions" from the sheriff's office that the jail is meeting those requirements and has asked for proof.
Turner complained in the letter that such a request indicates McManus doesn't trust the sheriff and his staff.
He accused McManus of bias and "a disturbing propensity" to judge the sheriff's office based on "anecdotal reports of disgruntled employees and the unverified and frequently unverifiable tales of the press."
McManus countered that Turner's suggestion that he based his findings on the word of disgruntled employees and media accounts "preposterous."
McManus wrote that his concerns about jail staffing, for example, were based on his own observations, analyzing staff rosters and written and oral reports from "experienced jail employees."
The monitor and the judge already have discussed the possibility of hiring someone familiar with the intricacies of the Fulton jail to review documents and to report findings to the court and to McManus. Shoob said he will consider appointing an auditor because McManus "was not hired to audit numbers . . . He [the monitor] should expect that any numbers furnished him by the jail officials are accurate. If he [McManus] had some question about the figures and had not reported that to the court, he would be remiss in his obligation."
Sgt. Nikita Adams-Hightower, spokeswoman for Freeman, said Tuesday that the sheriff had not received McManus' letter. "When we do, we will carefully review it," Adams-Hightower said.
Attorneys for the inmates said there are problems with reports. "There needs to be more intensive monitoring," said Lisa Kung, director of the Atlanta-based Southern Center for Human Rights.
McManus wrote that a change in the relationship between him and the sheriff's office began in the fall of 2006. Top-ranking jail officers were reassigned, conflicts between the jail administrator and the sheriff's consultant increased, and "much of the reporting stopped," McManus wrote.
"The 'level of mistrust' grew when I pressed for a more comprehensive and articulated plan to address the multiple staffing issues raised by the consent order. It increased as I raised concerns about the lack of detail with regard to the reporting of the number of inmates not released within 24 hours as required by the consent order, and it increased further with the deterioration of the jail's internal chain of command ...
"The final blow appears to be my refusal to accept as fact mere "assertions" of compliance," McManus wrote.
Posted by Harry...
Ms. White annexation has never been an option for me. To remain unincorporated means everyone must stick together. What I'm seeing is people are being frighten by different tactics. All is take one person to break the chain and the rest will fall.
Besides the last thing any of these cities want is to annex my property. I will be the biggest thorn in their collective sides. I want to remain unincorporated. That likely hood is shrinking everyday.
The lastest campaign by SFCC needs to include alot more information on Fulton Industrial Blvd. The information is lacking and it's a vital piece of the puzzle.
Who knows if I'm going to forced into a city. I might as well run for mayor. I know just as much if not more than those pushing the measure....wait, let me ask my wife. LOL
James,
SFCC continues to execute a disinformation campaign that lacks factual evidence of the viability of financial case for a city.
The evidence that the annexations have delivered a death blow to the already shaky numbers is how they are desperately seeking legislation to include revenue from Fulton Industrial.
Any vote on FIB would be countywide and the other parts of the county are likely to relinquish the general fund revenue from FIB to a new city of SF.
Furthermore thus far there is no news of Dr. Eger re-doing his study in light of the annexations.
SFCC has new signs that reveal their motivation all along was to create a new city. The signs paid for by Miller Zell are like putting lipstick on a pig - its still a pig!
PS: James If you run for Mayor you'll have my vote. Maybe Harry King will run for Fulton County Sherriff too. LOL
To anonymous....
From: Harry King....be very, very clear on my position about the city of South Fulton Ga. I am OPPOSED! There is not tax base or economic lifeline! I do not agree with the Fulton County Commissioner from district 7! I believe that in the next 2 to 3 years, all of Fulton County will be in a city limit. I believe that it will be best to annex into existing cities. Pick one :-).
I find it amusing that you give a pass to the situation in the Sherriff office. They have $90 million of your tax dollars that you do not have the nerve to ask accountability for...that's what I am trying to get accomplished. James and I may agree to disagree, but one thing I was told about James was that he holds the people he votes for accountable...WHAT DO YOU DO?
Friday, February 16, 2007 1:39:00 PM
Actually the cost will fit perfectly. One police precinct and three fire stations. Nothing to worry about except FIB. What ever the businesses are generating in taxes would be kept right there. Besides the County owned airport must have fire & rescue on site.
The prostitutes, pimps and adult businesses would remain the problem of Fulton County.
Some of my concern as I stated here before revolves around the lack of parks and recreation. Mr. King has a point about the jail. It's only going to get worse. We got to stem the flow and one sure way to do that is to expand our parks and give our young people alternatives to crime and mischief. At the same time forces parents to get involved in their children's school.
We are under a lot of pressure to moving forward and must make a decision. I keep saying I can't support a city without all the facts on the table and I'm sticking to that.
I love the idea of starting from scratch and molding the future, but when I've worked with start up operations in the past it has been with all the questions answered, i's dotted and t's crossed. SFCC has to come to the realization there remains a lot of unanswered questions. Another issue is the latest map of annexations from Fulton County shows the Old National area land locked between Union City and College Park.
Can you have a portion of the city not contiguous? I don't think so.
What's Happening to the South Fulton?
Two words - Union City. It's as if Sherman's March to the Sea has revived itself as Union City marches across South Fulton County. In an unprecedented fashion this once small dying city has sprouted wings in all directions, taking in pasture land and undeveloped potential commercial nodes along South Fulton Parkway. Union City has progressed where as it will become nearly impossible to manage.
Meanwhile, the proposed city of South Fulton and Chattahoochee Hills have lost some 21,000 acres in a frenzied rush by once sleepy municipalities wanting a piece of the pie. How will all of this play out? No one seems to know. Speculations are the proposed city of South Fulton is truly ham strung, especially if the cloak on Fulton Industrial Blvd is not lifted. You see, FIB by law can't be a part of a city without a county-wide referendum. It was put off limits years ago to keep it out of the hands of Atlanta.
I'm still wondering about the Old National corridor. A close look at the map above and you'll see it seems to be land locked by Union City and pray tell College Park. Can that area be considered as part of a proposed city of South Fulton when it's not contiguous? Time will tell.
In the meantime, state legislators are seeking to change laws regarding annexation and how counties can object. Will any of it help South Fulton? Time will tell.
Certainly, Union City isn't alone in its land grab. Fairburn has leap outside of it's boundaries down to the Fayette County line and surrounded the Oakley Industrial area. Palmetto is now larger too. It's walked into Coweta County as well as bitten off a large chunk of what was Chattahoochee Hills promised land. That move forced Chatt Hill to momentarily reconsider cityhood and asked to be annexed into Palmetto. They were pushed away and now Chatt Hill is forced to go at it alone with a slightly altered plan. Some of Sandtown hasn't given up joining Atlanta at this point either.
I'm offering up a suggestion that will certainly be rebuffed by all parties involved. Chalk it up to the cult of personalities. South Fulton Concerned Citizens and Chattahoochee Hills Alliance should sit down and work out a an agreement to combine into one municipality, if not share resources. Neither seems to have the population nor commercial resources at this time to survive alone.
What ever happens come June a decision is going to have to be made and who ever can get their constituency to the polls is going to get to rule. No one affected by this issue can sit on the sidelines and become a spectator. Whether you agree with incorporation, which seems to be the plan as our surveys have shown, get annexed or you rather be left "the hell alone". Either way you are going to have to take a stand on June 19.
The sad thing is many of us are too lazy to register to vote much less educate ourselves and actually turn out to cast an informed ballot.
Just watch how few folks turn out next month to vote on the SPLOST III vote.
Posted by Harry King...
Lawyers: On-site monitoring of jail needed
Fulton County, sheriff get letter citing inconsistencies
By RHONDA COOK
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/22/07
Staffing shortages at the Fulton County Jail may be prompting guards to use Tasers and chemical sprays to control inmates, even those locked in cells, according to lawyers for a group of inmates who filed suit against the jail in 2004.
The attorneys also said they found the same inconsistencies in reports from the Sheriff's Office claiming adequate staffing levels at the jail that were challenged recently by a federal jail monitor and in an earlier investigation by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
Attorneys Stephen Bright and Lisa Kung of the Southern Center for Human Rights listed examples of some of the staffing inconsistencies in a letter sent Monday to attorneys for Fulton County and Sheriff Myron Freeman.
They also described incidents when officers used chemicals or Tasers on inmates, including one in which guards sprayed a mentally ill inmate with chemicals because he was acting out.
Bright and Kung said in their letter that inmate Barry Jackson was sprayed repeatedly until he was forced to the floor and handcuffed.
"There is no security justification for using chemical spray on a person who is already locked inside a cell," the attorneys wrote.
They raised the question of whether the staff is using Tasers and chemical sprays because "they are often required to carry out higher risk duties alone rather than with other officers" and may fear back-up help could be slow in coming "if they should find themselves in trouble."
The letter said closer monitoring is needed to verify reports by the Sheriff's Office that the jail is adequately staffed most of the time.
The Fulton jail has been operating for more than a year under a federal court order designed to make the facility safer. The inmates' lawsuit claimed the jail was dirty, dangerous, overcrowded and unconstitutional.
To ensure the jail complies with the order, U. S. District Court Judge Marvin Shoob appointed a monitor, Minnesota jail expert Patrick McManus, to oversee efforts by the Sheriff's Office to provide the jail with adequate staffing, release inmates in a timely manner and keep inmate populations low enough to avoid overcrowding, among other requirements.
Bright and Kung noted that Freeman's office claimed the jail met minimum staffing requirements about 85 percent of the time for several recent months.
But the lawyers said their review of daily records indicated the jail met those requirements only 48 percent of the time between Nov. 20 and 30, which was included in the reports from the sheriff of a higher compliance rate.
"Even in the unlikely event that they were in compliance 100 percent of the days earlier in November, [the jail] would not have reached the sheriff's report of 85 percent compliance," the letter said.
According to records obtained by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, inadequate staffing continued in January. Jail records indicate, for example, that no cellblocks were properly staffed on the overnight shift for five of eight days.
Staffing at the jail has been an area of concern for McManus and the Southern Center attorneys for some time. The court order requires the jail to have at least four people working in each cellblock and a supervisor on each of the seven floors. Proper staffing makes the jail safer for inmates as well as staff.
"We have been concerned about the adequacy of staff and training and where there is insufficient staff, the danger to inmates and staff," Bright and Kung wrote. "In monitoring this area, we are seeing one thing and the jail is reporting another."
The attorneys noted that during December, the Sheriff's Office claimed the jail was in "partial compliance" on staffing requirements.
But the Southern Center said records showed the jail was understaffed 49 percent of the time.
"This is not partial compliance," Bright and Kung said in their letter. "There may be an explanation for these discrepancies, but they indicate that more in-depth auditing is necessary to measure compliance."
Sheriff Myron Freeman said in an e-mailed statement that his reports are based on the number of people assigned to posts while the Southern Center is looking at the number of people who actually work those positions.
Freeman explained that it was simply "differences in ... calculations" and "both right."
Bright and Kung endorsed a request made by the monitor that the judge appoint an on-site auditor, someone personally familiar with jail operations and with enough time to review records and make sure reports from Sheriff's Office to the monitor are accurate.
Shoob received McManus' written request for an on-site auditor Wednesday but was unavailable to comment on whether he might appoint one.
The monitor himself is limited in how often he can travel to Atlanta and how long he is allowed to visit the jail.
McManus has complained several times about the lack of detailed information in reports sent him by the Sheriff's Office. When he questioned the veracity of those reports, Freeman suggested in a Jan. 31 letter that the monitor resign. McManus declined.
The Southern Center attorneys cited other examples in their letter of guards using chemical sprays or Tasers on inmates locked in cells. They say it indicates there are not enough people working in the jail:
• Inmate Richard Glasco flooded his cell and began spreading feces and urine because he had waited for more than 24 hours to be processed into the jail. A sergeant reported that "due to staff shortage," a special team was called to quiet the inmate. Glasco was shot with a Taser, handcuffed and removed from the cell.
• Inmate Alphonzo Todd was being booked into the jail Dec. 23. When two officers came to move him, Todd began banging on the wall. The officers told Todd to remove his shoes and to come with them. "As he bent down to take off his shoes, the officers reported he appeared aggressive. They pushed Mr. Todd into the cell and shot him with the Taser," the letter said.
....Pay attention to what I am saying...please...posted by Harry King.
Fulton to rebid controversial jail food contract
By D.L. BENNETT
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/21/07
Amid allegations of bid rigging and corruption, Fulton County commissioners agreed Wednesday to rebid a lucrative food service contract at the county jail.
County Attorney O.V. Brantley said Wednesday she's launched a probe into the allegations, but Commissioner Robb Pitts said any investigation should be turned over to state or federal agents.
"Someone seems hell bent on giving the contract to this firm," Pitts said. "I'm going to find out why.... This is serious stuff...This needs to be investigated, not in house but by someone outside."
The Trinity Services Group won the original contract in 2005, but it expired more than a year ago. When it was rebid in December, Trinity received the recommendation, even though it was the highest bidder of the three, according to county records.
One of the firms that was rejected filed a formal protest with the county, and the other filed a letter, also with the county, claiming employees were pressured to change bid evaluations to ensure that the deal stayed with Trinity.
Charles Mathis Jr. said his client, Meat Masters Inc., was the rightful winner of the contract with a bid that was $850,000 lower than Trinity's $4.1 million offer. They only failed, Mathis said in his letter, because county employees were pressured to doctor the bid evaluations.
"Meat Masters should legitimately be awarded the contract," Mathis wrote.
Two county employees, Sgt. Chandra Hall and former Chief Jailer Charles Felton, provided written statements to Meat Masters that they had been directed to change the contract evaluations to boost the results for Trinity. The Board of Commissioners has copies of the letters, which were also obtained by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
Both said they were threatened that if they went before commissioners with Meat Masters as the bidder they would be hammered.
The other bidder, Gourmet-Aramark Correctional Services, has alleged collusion involving the other two bidders since Meat Masters was included as a subcontractor on the winning bid by Trinity.
Lawyer Michael Coleman, who served as hearing officer for the complaint, issued a ruling on Feb. 16 that recommended Fulton rebid the deal.
"Due to the questions raised by the county's rejection of Gourmet-ARAMARK's proposal and the collusion claims involving Trinity and Meat Masters, the appropriate remedy is to cancel the current RFP and re-issue a new RFP," Coleman found.
All of you City of South Fulton fanatics riding the cost tails of an Atlanta, GA mailing address can start putting in your change of address requests for South Fulton, GA 3033?? Be sure to set aside some money to order new checks and stationary.
Supporters of a new South Fulton City are still touting the obsolete Dr. Eger study saying the city is financially viable, while seeking unlikely legislative attempts to go after Fulton Industrial because I think they really know the financials are shakier than they let on.
I ask supporters of a new city how are you able to conclude it’s still a good financial decision without a new feasibility study reflecting the impact of annexations?
Can we really make an informed and intelligent decision based on obsolete pre-annexation conclusions and data? Are you willing to bet your quality of life on hearsay? Just asking....
Published on "Georgia Politics Unfiltered" Blog
I don't think a city of South Fulton is viable at this time because of a number of reasons:
1) The mass annexations by Union City have harmed the future economic viability of the proposed city. What was once vast commercial property ripe for development and commercial property taxes along South Fulton Parkway is gone unless state law can be changed to retroact those annexations.
2) Those same annexations have created an island of the Old National/Flat Shoals Area. It's my understanding that such actions can not create those non-contiguous islands.
3) There is no plan. I understand SFCC is awaiting a plan to be paid for the state.
4) A $2 million surplus isn't enough to satisfy inadequancies in park land, ball fields, road pavements, etc.
5) No one is willing to discuss where will the "city center" be located. The only area with such structures is Fulton Industrial.
6) Speaking of FIB - Without it the surplus doesn't exist. That's a constitutional change that will need to take place. It can't be incorporated into a city a this time.
7) Other infrastructure expenses are needed to be taken care of for such a move. Example - I spoke of the city hall, within that are utilities that needed to be established along with data, GIS and computer systems. All of which cost a lot more than $2 million dollars.
8) Not to mention the pension of the new fire and police that the city will need. A move to incorporation MAY create a public safety "brain drain". How much is a fire fighter worth to a city of South Fulton? I dare say not the amount that Fulton County is paying. Then you are creating another crisis as you try to recruit the same people that are here for less money and pensions.
9) My favorite reason is NO ONE is willing to announce that inorder for a city of SF to survive there's going to have to be a TAX INCREASE!!!!
I like being unincorporated. I enjoy less government. If and that's a big if - the city is voted in I might run for mayor under the banner of "I"M RUNNING TO INCREASE YOUR TAXES BECUZ WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO MONEY".
Andre' the idea of a city really intrigue me in the beginning. After sitting back and thinking of all the possibilites I didn't see it being an easy proposition.
I for one hated we lost parks and recreation and it seems no one in SFCC is committed to creating and maintaining park land and recreational opportunities. That's unfortunate because that's how we are going to deal with the huge influx of youngsters needing after school and summer recreational programs to keep them out of trouble.
S. White,
That email as I read it was just reinforcement of the foolhardiness of incorporating. James has stated repeatedly on the record that he is against forming the city of South Fulton and wants to remain unincorporated - not annexed.
That said, for the sake of accuracy as if that mattered with anti-annexation zealots, where are you getting the facts on the tax increase? Tell us how you figured a 20% increase from the tax digest?
When folks I know compared their rates in Guilford Forrest they went up a couple hundred a year. That's hardly 20%.
Shamefully this is more disinformation - like South Fulton Concerned Citizens is peddling. We know you tell a lie often enough about taxes, folks start to believe it.
Where are you getting your facts or garbage on the garbage collection going up 97%? Are you comparing apples to oranges? Give us some details so we know you aren't pulling numbers out of the air or somewhere else. In other words how many pick ups a week, does it include recycling, bulk pickups et cetera.
Waste Management and Dream Sanitation are spending alot of money fighting annexation, because they lose alot of customers when an area is serviced by Atlanta.
Some say Uncle Bill Edwards' fight against annexation is motivated by his ties to Dream Sanitation.
They always say to follow the money when looking at one's motives. I hope you're not just another one of the undercover paid lobbyists of either Waste Management or Dream Sanitation peddling more lies. It would tarnish the veracity of your previously thoughtful though incorrect conclusions.
Good debate! I can tell you from talking to my mother-in-law who lives off Cascade Road in Atlanta. Her water and sewer charges are outrageous. In addition, she pays a "rain water" run off tax of some sort. That's for having water go into the sewer from her land. The fee is collected with her mortgage and is paid out of escrow each year. If you remember it was something started during the Campbell administration to help defray some of the cost for the sewer repairs I believe.
I can't compare that with anything in unincorporated Fulton County so that's a new tax. To tell you truth waste pick up will be a new tax too. Here in unincorporated S. Fulton you can choose to take your waste to the landfill for as little as $4 a trip. In a month you can spend $16 as oppose to being bill by a sanitation company or a city. So that's a tax on your household that you don't have an option to avoid.
There's just two new taxes that are associate with Atlanta. I don't know what they are in the other cities.
I will cite one of my original arguments with being annexed by Atlanta. Everyone is in love with Shirley Franklin she's doing a great job. She is only mayor for another 3 years. After which the available characters are plentiful. Will the next administration be the same? No one knows.
The same can be said with the city of South Fulton. Who will run the city? What experiences do they have? What do they know? Will they be good stewards? Can they take the criticism that I'm personally going the heap on them? I have joked about mounting a campaign for mayor. I've even come up with a slogan "I'm running for mayor to raise your taxes because we're going to need your money"
The rhetoric that is coming from all side lacks facts and the truth.
Atlanta is now a wonderful place but look hard and you'll see something that strikes me as very odd. Within Atlanta there is only one area that is growing with a minority population and that include affordable homes and that's the newly developed Princeton Lakes. My father-in-law made a statement years ago before he passed, he said Atlanta is only going to be for the middle class and rich very soon.
Atlanta isn't opening its door to parts of Sandtown for nothing. There's taxes in those homes and it helps to tip the scale ever so slightly to the black population that is dwindling within its borders. It's been said here and other places. Shirley is probably the last if not next to last black mayor Atlanta will see for a while. That doesn't have anything to do with anything but for some it matters.
I will continue my skepticism about a city of South Fulton until someone gives me the information that I need. That hasn't happened and probably will never happen. I only have one of two options - incorporation or staying unincorporated at this point I remain for unincorporation.
James,
You won't get anything on why we should risk everything building a new city except the same rehashed flawed and obsolete financial studies. The South Fulton Concerned Citizen's strategy is if you tell a lie often enough, people will believe it to be true.
Has anyone found any credible material that makes the case for the City of South Fulton?
There's nothing new on the South Fulton Concerned Citizens website and from their meeting minutes they had a whopping 8 people at their meeting: http://southfultonconcernedcitizens.org/current_minutes.htm
Maybe folks are starting to realize how foolish we would be not to come out and vote against the City of South Fulton on June 19th.
In this case what you don't do will harm you. Think of a NO VOTE as a vaccine against outrageous taxes, more political power to special interest groups and more opportunities for graft and corruption. The choice is yours...
Has a bill to free up Fulton Industrial Blvd been introduced?
http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2007_08/search/sb301.htm
Did the standing room only crowd of eight (8) at the March 1 South Fulton Concerned Citizens Meeting unanimously vote to campaign for a new city of South Fulton?
http://southfultonconcernedcitizens.org/current_minutes.htm
Is anyone surprised that after over a year of "collecting information" they decided what we need is a new City?
Do you see any analysis of the other choices on their website?
Do you know whose these people are that are toting water for State Representatives Roger Bruce and Virgil Fludd?
Has anyone seen State Senator Kasim Reed recently?
Are you going to ride this train off of the bride on June 19 or get out and vote to save your way of life?
Did you vote today in the election to renew the SPLOST tax or not? Is that an indication on whether you will vote on a new City or not on June 19th?
Will your apathy mean the 3 musketeers will start and run the city you live in on your nickel?
Hello....is anyone home?
i searched and there 's nothing there.
They are working fast the city of South Fulton already has a website:
http://www.cityofsouthfulton.org
Wrong state, it says South Fulton, TENNESSEE.
That was meant to be a joke....
The FIB bill is awaiting senate approval.
State Senate Bill 301 has been introduced to repeal the amendment to the Georgia Constitution that prohibited the Fulton County Industrial District (the Fulton Industrial Blvd. area) from being taxed by the Fulton County governing authority.
Interestingly enough pro-city advocate Andre Walker characterizes this FIB revenue as "extremely crucial to the financial viability of the new City of South Fulton".
I'd always heard the City of South Fulton would be financially viably without Fulton Industrial.
Even if this bill is passed by the senate, passed by the house, and signed by the Governor, all of Fulton County must vote for the referendum. North Fulton is not likely to vote to give a city of South Fulton all of that revenue.
The ever-shrinking proposed City of South Fulton...
Proposed city of South Fulton "taken to cleaners"
House bill legitimizes annexation of property by other cities
By D.L. BENNETT
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/20/07
The ever-shrinking proposed City of South Fulton suffered another setback with Friday's passage of House Bill 725.
The legislation ends a lengthy dispute over annexation of thousands of would-be South Fulton acres into cities such as Atlanta, Palmetto and Union City by legitimizing every annexation through April 2.
"Basically the voters of south Fulton got taken to the cleaners," said George Nicholson, a south Fulton resident supporting the new city. "This is a huge problem. It's taken a substantial portion of the new city away."
The original bill setting up the city last year set the boundaries for the proposed city as every piece of property not inside of one of the existing south Fulton cities, excluding the 40,000 acres for another proposed city, Chattahoochee Hill Country, in far south Fulton.
But city leaders in south Fulton complained that would forever fix their borders. They persuaded lawmakers to give them some time to annex land. Lawmakers set the deadline as Oct. 30.
However, a lawsuit and judge's decision eliminated the deadline, and annexations have continued unabated for the past six months. In all, more than 15,000 acres that would have been part of the planned city have been taken by competing cities since the Oct. 30 deadline
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/04/20/0420sfulton.html
Quote of the week courtesy of Bill Edwards at the Townhall in response to Benny Crane of South Fulton Concerned Citizens:
"Why do you want to buy police stations, fire stations and parks you already own?"
To show you how unrealistic the Eger study is in projecting expenses, according to Benny Crane they budgeted only $7.6 million for roads.
Even after the annexations of 15,000+ acres of the proposed city of South Fulton by others it is still considerably larger that Johns Creek. Johns Creek estimates they will spend almost $15 million on roads.
That's almost double what Eger budgeted for a much smaller city geographically. Here's the link to the AJC article: http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/northfulton/stories/2007/04/27/0428metjcreek.html
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
Harvey Davis
When you're living in a glass house, don't throw no stones...
Georgia Politics Unfiltered on the South Fulton Cityhood Campaign:
http://georgiaunfiltered.blogspot.com/2007/05/let-sunshine-in-on-south-fulton.html
The outcome of the election for a new city of Chattahoochee Hills is practically a done deal as they form a Caucasian oasis in the middle of the proposed City of South Fulton. No one ever explained the behind the scenes deals “our” democratic black legislators made to allow Chattahoochee Hills to carve out their own city, instead of joining a city of South Fulton that would be 80% Black.
Can anyone tell us why our black legislators went along with this de facto segregation creating a predominantly black and a predominantly white pair of south Fulton cities?
Word is now some of the founding white republican leaders behind South Fulton Concerned Citizens who registered the organization have lost their enthusiasm for the South Fulton Cityhood venture:
http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/Corp.asp?416777.
I guess they realize that the game for a viable city is over now that they’ve lost in their efforts both in court and now the legislature to overturn the 15,000 acres of the city that annexed by petition into other cities. They know that unlike the new North Fulton Cities that have plenty of commercial tax revenue the previously marginal case for a financially viable city of South Fulton is dead.
How else can you explain that after months of saying that the Eger Study says the city is still viable after the annexations, we still do not see the proof. Without the tax revenue of annexed prime commercial land and high-end homes in West Cascade a City of South Fulton, GA simply cannot survive without massive unacceptable tax increases.
This is why democratic pro-city legislators focused their efforts more on overturning the annexations than fixing the fatal flaw in the boundaries introduced at the last minute. Those republicans behind the scenes pulling the strings of “our” democratic legislators and the South Fulton Concerned Citizen’s black president are ultimately more intersected supporting North Fulton republicans efforts in dismantling Fulton County than they are in forming a new City of South Fulton.
Those republicans that live close to Chattahoochee Hills are likely resigned to seeking to be annexed by Chattahoochee Hills if they can. The others will likely settle for annexation by Fairburn or Union City or sellout and move to North Fulton with their co-conspirators like Mark Burkhalter and Jan Jones.
Remember folks, this really all is about forming Milton County and creating their own Milton Schools System now that they have the vast majority of schools from SPLOST I and II. They are already working on North Fulton Schools from SPLOST III after they throw South Fulton a bone for a few schools.
Remember even with a new City of South Fulton we still have to settle for the second class Fulton Schools in South Fulton. Folks can be in denial all they want about Fulton schools, but when you compare North and South Fulton School test scores and academic performance, you will see it is a tale of two cities.
Drinking the “Our City” Our Control” Kool-aide just means we will not see the big picture issue of the Fulton splitting in half and South Fulton continuing to get the shaft. If we continue skipping down the yellow brick road to cityhood, it will be too late by the time we realize we were bamboozled along with some of our elected officials when the county splits in half and Milton County and Milton School System is formed.
Naysayers may say this will never happen, but many of these same naysayers and some of our elected leaders said that they’ll never form a city of Sandy Springs either. If you don’t turn out to "VOTE NO" against this looming train wreck whenever the vote is, you have no one to blame but yourself.
The only reason that South Fulton Concerned Citizens and their co-conspirators in the legislature wanted Cascade and Sandtown for the new city was the tax revenue.
Many in West Cascade bailed early on the new city because they knew it would not fly and would rather join a prosperous city than bear the tax burden for a bunch of rural folks they have little in common with in the southern most part of the county.
Why else would SFCC spend so much money filing lawsuits and directing their cohorts to overturn the residential annexations in West Cascade? Now they are angry with Kasim Reed because he upheld the legal constitutional choices people made to join other cities through annexation.
Remember these cities could not take residents through annexation. These were not hostile annexations; they were the willing choices of the "super" majority of the residents in those areas.
It took 60+ percent of the voters and 60+ percent of the landowners choosing to annex into the cities. The vote for a new city of South Fulton only requires 51% of the vote.
They lost in court and then the got their lackeys Representatives Roger Bruce and Virgil Fludd to try and pass laws since the courts agreed overturning the annexations was wrong. Then they lost in the legislature too as HB725 sanctioned all 15,000+ acres of choices landowners made to annex into existing cities. Now no court action can overturn the choices folks made other than building a new city.
Why would SFCC slink around asking folks who signed petitions to annex rather than form a new city to remove their signatures from the petition? They fought to keep Sandtown and Cascade fiercely and Roger Bruce spread fear in the community over education because they were desperate for SW Fulton to fund their aspirations of power "their control" "their city".
So much energy was expended by the so called "South Fulton Concerned Citizens" fighting annexations that now they can barely explain why we should choose a new city. The financial study that was coming hot off the presses in March to supposedly prove that the city would be viable even after the 15,000 acres of land that went to other cities is still unavailable just weeks before the original election date. Could it be that the so called proof is not really there?
SFCC stopped publishing their meeting minutes and the attendee list in March because only a handful of folks were attending the meetings to plan the city. Here we have a few folks trying to push a new city that NO ONE asked for in South Fulton. Folks moved to un-incorporated Fulton County intentionally because they did not want to live in a city. Now a chosen few are telling us that we need to do this?
Studies and polls have shown that majority of folks in South Fulton ARE NOT in favor of forming a new city. Consequently SFCC cannot raise funds from the masses - only from those special interest groups with deep pockets and money to throw away.
My counsel is for those folks is to join Chattahoochee Hills. Unlike SFCC they are actually organized and laying the groundwork for a new city. While on the other hand the only thing that SFCC can seem to do is plan when and where to plant Cityhood signs on vacant lots where no one will object to make folks think someone actually wants a new city.
You do not make a compelling case for a new city by planting signs, but with honest and truthful facts and statistics. If you are silly enough to vote for anything based on the number of signs you see, perhaps you deserve what you get...Come out to vote against the city whenever the vote is. The livelihood you save may be your own!
Just a reminder for those of you who don't know why Andre Walker is pushing soooo hard for a city of South Fulton.
His reason is the same as Reggie Tatum's of Sandtown. He wants to be a city councilman for the City of South Fulton.
I've no doubt that Andre will indeed acknowledge this desire, but its important to remind folks of "the rest of the story" as they weigh his arguments in his BLOG.
Here's the link
Andre Walker: I’m thinking about running for South Fulton City Council
What seems to escape pro city of South Fulton folks is the vast majority of folks in unincorporated South Fulton moved to unincorporated Fulton County intentionally.
We did not want to be part of a city. If we wanted to live in a city we would have moved to one. We certainly don't plan to be because Roger Bruce and a few other politicos decided that "You People" need to incorporate into a new city too.
Just like white folks fled Atlanta, and now suffer the nightmares of 2 hour commutes, and are moving back; they will realize that forming a new city isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Of course we like lemmings will follow them off of the cityhood cliff.
Pro-cityhood preachers think we're stupid as a few pontificate on the so called benefits of cityhood – really just for what they will get out of it and put Vote Yes signs all over as if that is a compelling argument.
In reality very few residents in South Fulton really want a city and those that do, can't tell you how yet another layer of government will make things better. All they can do is recite the talking points like puppets, but they cannot participate in intelligent dialogue with anyone who differs.
I keep hearing about this study that is supposed to prove that a city of South Fulton will work without big tax increases. What I don't understand is if it supposedly proves a new city will survive, why is it so hard to get a copy of it? We all know Andre would have it on page one IF it existed!
I think it is more smoke and mirrors. They recycle the same tired phrases because they lack the EVIDENCE that their quest would be successful.
The important thing is that whenever we have the vote, the silent majority who wants to stay unincorporated just needs to come out and vote, and send these would-be power brokers packing.
The idea of South Fulton Cities only came about as a reaction to the creation of Sandy Springs in north Fulton under the “me to” it must be a good idea mentality.
Unlike north Fulton Cities the idea for a City of South Fulton was something that the masses DID NOT ask for and most still do not want.
Kasim Reed and Roger Bruce only moved forward with SB552 and SB553 out of fear that the legislature was going to re-instate the 3-mile rule limiting municipal incorporations. It simply did not happen!
Whether the city is created or not WE WILL STILL LIVE IN FULTON COUNTY and the general fund expenditures will still be governed by Bill Edwards. Even if they remove the at large commissioners and cut it to three for North Fulton, Atlanta and South Fulton, Bill Edwards will still be commissioner.
For those that do not know any better even if we foolishly vote for a city of South Fulton, Bill Edwards will still be your commissioner – he will indeed have less jurisdiction and won't be one of seven votes governing SF SSD services, but he will still be your commissioner.
Having our own mayor and city council just means a different group of politicians to hold accountable for city services.
It is convenient to blame your woes and find scapegoats in politicians. It makes you feel better that you have no stake in the problems you face. Yes it’s that same feel good notion of cityhood without considering the consequences that looms for those who do not wake up and stop drinking the Kool-aide.
Until people in South Fulton learn to become educated and involved, they will suffer from leaders (and bloggers) who take advantage of their ignorance. They will need to learn to research agendas, zonings et cetera and call their leaders out when they do wrong.
For the record I did not vote for Bill Edwards, nor do I work for him or benefit in anyway as a result of my agreement on this issue with Bill Edwards that a city is a HUGE MISTAKE.
As I have said before the burden of proof for those like you and the SF "concerned citizens" that want to change status quo is to show with a reasonable degree that the huge irreversible change would be an improvement.
As we are now some 50 days from the second scheduled vote and still do not have a financial feasibility study, I can only conclude the case will not be made by September 18.
No one is able to show the shaky financial case for a new city even before the mass exodus of those owning 15,000+ acres decided they would rather go elsewhere than build a new city from scratch.
Anyone who thinks forming a city will result in less rather than more problems just does not understand what it takes. These same folks have probably never attended a Fulton Board of Commissioners Meeting, have gone to zoning meetings or even could tell you the county’s website address.
They intend to vote to change a government structure and interaction that they do not know. They do it without the knowledge to make an informed decision, just a gut feeling.
Like one who gets a divorce, until you address the root of your own culpability with the problems, you are doomed to repeat them in your next marriage.
SFG
For those not alseep at the wheel they released another study supposedly saying a new city of South Fulton will survive financially. My comment is figures lie and liars figure....
As we expected the SF feasibility study commissioned by those who want a new city says the new city will work - what a surprise.
Cityhood supporters just keep drinking that Kool-aide toward your own peril.
As a finance major I know you can make the bottom line look good based on the assumptions you make. A marginal surplus with all of the initial start up costs with a new city is not persuasive.
That surplus would be wiped out in a heartbeat if we make some of the same mistakes made by those "smart" folks we are imitating in the NF cities of Milton, Johns Creek and Sandy Springs.
On first glance a problem huge I see with the assumptions for instance is it falsely concludes that "based on the density in South Fulton that the police and fire costs are too high and perhaps we are receiving higher levels of police and services than we need!"
Anyone living in South Fulton knows about the huge increase in burglaries and home invasions recently. We nee more police not fewer. Cutting police funding would be disastrous to our safety.
Procity supporters will endorse and advertise anything that gives them a chance to run for office in their new thiefdom in a city of South Fulton.
If you want to make your decision based on a study that says we are spending too much on police and fire services, just keep walking to cityhood even though the bridge is out ahead.
If you want to stay unincorporated you'd better come out and vote against this new city on September 18th!!
SFG
The recently announced Fulton County surplus is precisely why South Fulton voters should look at facts not rhetoric.
The worst thing they can do is panic based on the fear mongering of South Fulton "Concerned Citizens" and their lobbyist Lieutenant Andre Walker.
His credibility was shot when he claimed not to be a member of the organization and now we see he is not only Chairman of their fund raising PAC, but running their chat line briefing folks with the pro-city scripts and numbers for targeted voters to call.
If you think this city is a dream, just look at the nightmare of a meltdown occurring in Milton and the other new cities in North Fulton County.
Voting to form yet another layer of government for wanna be politicians like Andre would be foolhardy and disastrous.
It’s really reassuring that the Keystone Kops of South Fulton Concerned Citizens are planning the city of South Fulton on our behalf.
Who anointed them as our city planners? Did I miss a vote?
What are they planning besides their campaigns to run for elected office in the new city?
When are they planning to share their plans and assumptions their flawed study was based on?
Chattahoochee Hills planned everything out front and in the open. You can find it all on their website. There was unity of vision and purpose and no lack of leadership. Anyone looking would be confident that they will succeed.
By contrast South Fulton Concerned Citizens plans without any dissenters invited. They see those that do not want to participate in this municipal experiment as the opposition.
They stopped publishing their meeting minutes on their website in March of this year to hide the disruption, division and disorganization that took place in their meetings and the fact that there were typically fewer than a dozen attendees.
They plant unsolicited signs on private property or deserted lots in the public right of way in the dark of night because that’s how they operate. The public slogan masters just repeat the same silly arguments, devoid of any substance or depth.
They wave a marginal financial study at you quickly saying here’s the proof as though even if true that finances are the only challenge and now it’s a slam dunk we’ll succeed. But they cannot manage their own money.
They spent money they did not have on failed lawsuits to overturn the legal constitutional choices that 60+ percent of the property owners and voters made to join existing cities instead of starting one from scratch. Then they have yard or bake sales to try and pay the lawyers.
Then they commissioned a study and could not pay for it. Yes these are the people we want to manage our tax dollars and lead us.
Oh yeah I am really persuaded that SFCC is planning something - the question is what and for whom.
If you want to turn the quality of life that you chose in an unincorporated area over to this bunch of deceivers beware. The nightmare of high taxes and sorry services has not yet begun!!!
SFG
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