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This is where South Fulton comes to talk on the web. Please add your name to your blog so that we may keep track of all the comments. Register to create a user name. You do not have to create a site. Visit http://www.southfultonliving.com for more information on what's going on in South Fulton County. If you want to continue an older topic select the November 2006 tab below.
166 comments:
Do we really have any legitimate choices outside of annexation or incorporation? For any of South Fulton to remain unincorporated while the Northern half is totally incorporated doesn't make good economic sense. Most of the burden from Fulton County will lie solely on the backs of us who own property here on the southside. I think we will come out better economically by voting for the city of South Fulton and the Chattahoochee Hill Country next year. The economic reports posted on concerned citizens website should calm some fears and address many questions about the cost effectiveness. Put personalities and politics aside and choose whats best for the common good of the citizenry.
Staying unincorporated means things will cost more. Public safety departments will remain in place and become stable. At this point they are unstable. As we move towards incorporation or annexation they will fall apart unless a plan (guaranteed contract)is put in place to keep them around for at least 5 years under a new incorporated city.
Fulton County was like a swimming pool. The water levels were fine, some didn't agree with the cleaning methods, but it was fine. Sandy Springs decides to build its own pool and take roughly 1/2 of the water for its pool. Mind you there pool is only 1/2 filled now. The other proposed cities are building their pools and will take 1/8 each. That leaves the pool 1/4 filled. NO ONE CAN SWIM BECAUSE NONE OF THE POOLS ARE AT A SAFE LEVEL. Now SF and CHC will build their pools and take the remaining 1/4.
It's all about being selfish.
The decision to incorporate, and become a city, really has to do with survival. South Fulton is placed in the position of having to respond and react to the actions taken by the State Legislature in the process of creating the City of Sandy Springs, and the impact of the Shaffer (sp) Amendment. Other cities are now selecting portions of South Fulton to be annexed and the City of Atlanta has floated a big balloon. The citizens of South Fulton must incorporate to protect themselves from being picked to pieces by the surrounding jurisdictions.
Does South Fulton, i.e. Chattahoochee Hill Country, want the other areas of South Fulton other than the southern most part of the county? I don't think so. What happens if we vote to not be annexed by the lovely city of Union City? Will there be a level of discontent to stay the course and arrive with better representatives of the area? We need DIFFERENT representation. I have trusted Kasim Reed, I hope he hasn't been sucked into the greed vacuum. I do believe the water situation as announced on the news of late (not enough water) should be a testimony to cause and effect. BUT will those offenders/representatives be voted out of office and not included in the newly incorporated area? In my opinion, any elected official whom has not provided county recreational facilities for their constituents and leaves it up to the developers to call a bench and a tree a green space or a recreational area doesn't belong in office and you wonder how much they are aware of their own childrens needs. Oh, never mind, they don't live here. If you have noticed there has been no great plan of how they say in detail that things must change because the persons in office do not need a change. They're happy. Their quality of life is not threatened. Instead, it is mere photo op after photo op, and a "trust me" lonic repose that seems to keep them in office. I feel like we see every day how devastating Sandy Springs annexation has become to all of our lives and the figures had to be evident long before. Where was all the money going before Sandy Springs made their move? It's so sad that we have no statesmen, just ignorant politicians without any intention to make the area a better place for it's people. I say we wipe the slate clean. I am an avowed democrat, but I think we need some new democrats in office. Like 1960's tried to produce until they all sold out to being lotus eating capitalists.
I have several concerns about annexation attempts by Union City and East Point. The most dangerous issue is how they're going to provide services for DOUBLE their current size when they can't afford the residents they have now. Neither city will collect taxes from the newly annexed areas until October 2007 (the annexed areas would pay Fulton County in October 2006), so they'll have to provide services for an entire year without receiving any tax revenue. Where's the money coming from? They claim they'll use reserves and replenish them when they collect taxes next year. But how is that possible when the taxes they collect next year will be used to provide services next year? Annexation into those two cities just doesn't make any sense.
I'm not sure about the financial status of Palmetto, Fairburn or College Park, but I think all of these cities are trying to bite off more than they can chew with these overambitious annexations.
The current level of service (or disservice) is also an issue. Let's say they don't completely borrow from reserves, but decide to cut a few services to have enough $$ to pay for the services in annexed areas. Can you imagine how much worse it will be? It's scary. Another option (besides cutting services or borrowing $$ from reserves that they can't pay back) is raising taxes. They already have astronomical tax rates (12.25 mills?!?! Are you SERIOUS?). How much higher can they go? There's a limit to the millage rates. What happens when they raise it and still can't cover the costs?
A lot of people were concerned about the fact that we won't be able to vote on incorporation until 2007, but have you considered the benefits? We'll know what our S. Fulton millage rate is in 2007 (since we all know it's going up - they can't draw $12 million from reserves again). That will make incorporation even more viable, since the GSU study shows a city of South Fulton being able to operate on our current millage rate of 7.731.
We'll also know who we have in office in the Fulton County Board of Commissioners (more of the same? or possibly even worse?) And Fulton County will have to pay for road improvements for our schools for a longer time period.
Also, if we become a city, wouldn't we be able to charge developers impact fees? That's something that our Fulton County Board of Commissioners has been "looking into" for a VERY long time, but they haven't acted on it. That's additional money to go towards infrastructure improvements.
I have heard of areas being incorporated that are not geographically attached to the existing incorporation. Is it possible to become a part of the City of Atlanta? I have no aversion to that, especially given the representation we have suffered under as a part of the unincorporated area. I think with most of the corruption having been exposed and Shirley Franklin at the helm (and we know she is environmentally sensitive and does have common sense, not to mention experience) then it would be prudent to become a part of Atlanta. And please don't try to scare us with that Grady hospital diatribe. The city is enjoying increased tax revenues due to the wonderful growth Atlanta has enjoyed over the last couple of years. The problem other than not being geographically "attached" to the city, would be if we could Atlanta to take us. It's time we look ahead, realistically, and forget about Sandy Springs. Good ridence at this point. Shondra White, I would be interested in hearing what you think on this. I was the one who wrote the comment before your entries. As soon as I figure out how to register onthis blog, I will.
This is directed to James who says our public safety department will become stable. James, at what point do you forsee that happening? Because from what I have witnessed long before Sandy Springs annexed was a Fulton County Police department that was not just incapable of investigating felonies (and it was being handled by the detectives at the South Fulton office on South Fulton Industrial Blvd) but their lack of the most remedial of investigation makes me question their honesty and motives.
On another matter.....we need a moratorium immediately on any further developement. It is INSANE to continue down this path until things are sorted out. Is there one southside commisioner that would propose and get consensus for that? No, is the simple answer. I will be very blunt, Bill Edwards has really done no one any favors. I have seen him in photo opportunity after photo opportunity and nothing that has truly benefitted all or even most of the South Fulton county residents. He is just not what we need. He needs to ride off into the sunset. We'd only have improvement if we never heard from him again. (As if any of us has ever heard from him.)
We need a moratorium on the development NOW. One need only look to how far we have to drive to a movie theater. It's not like we didn't have one before everything declined. How far do you have to go for a decent restaurant? Macy's is hanging on by the skin of it's teeth. Mayors Park is such an Olympic type venue, isn't it? Thirty five years ago, East Point had a wonderful track for bicycle enthusiasts. And it took the competition from Sonic to force an interest in the service level at McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King. Why can't Union City attract better amenities? Is it because their joke leaders can not turn down the "bird in the hand" personal reward from the "beeznis" that is first-come-first-served on their calendars? They can't even conceive of how to make our lives better. Do they just take the path of least resistance? I think so.
Anonymous please add your name to your blogs or they will be removed.
The Fulton County Police and Fire Departments are very competent. The lose of personnel is due to the uncertain future. As cities come on line these men and women are leaving to join other agencies or joining the cities. Who can blame them. If a new city comes to South Fulton it only makes sense for the elected officials to contract with Fulton County for a number of years to ensure we have adequate fire and police protection.
BTW - Anonymous personal attacks will not be allowed. If you can write it you should be willing to pen your name to it.
I have never used, read or participated in a "blog" in any way, but I was under the impression that any individual could comment without fear of intimidation. I thank you for the opportunity to comment, and I am asking the author of the South Fulton Blog, if someone wishes to remain anonymous, can they do so without having their comments censored or removed?
I think becoming a part of the city of Atlanta is something that needs to be explored. Their millage rate is higher, but next year, ours might be right up there with theirs. That was my only objection to living within the city limits when I first moved here. It would also take our schools out of the Fulton County School System, which would be great. APS doesn't have the same problems in terms of the school board fighting and sending all the money/schools to certain areas (not that they're perfect). And Fulton County Schools is having serious financial problems. From what I understand, APS still has the programs that Fulton County Schools just cut. Also, Atlanta's finances are very stable. They've had surpluses every year for a while now. Their teachers make more $$, so South Fulton teachers should consider that when thinking in terms of their property taxes going up. That raise would at least offset the increase in taxes. I think Shirley Franklin is very capable, and definitely a consensus builder. We're already paying for the water, so that wouldn't change. And they have ordinances against clear-cutting trees. Also, according to Shirley Franklin's letter, it sounded as though they're open to discussion. It seems that we should at least organize some type of forum with the mayor/city council to see what they could offer us in terms of schools, environmental ordinances (i.e. clearcutting), "smart growth," etc. From what I can tell about the infill legislation, the city council and mayor at least LISTEN to the residents to see what they want in their neighborhoods. They don't have the same attitudes as our current county commissioners.
A city of South Fulton, according to the GSU study, is viable with the 52,000+ residents and all of the commercial development in unincorporated South Fulton. If the existing cities start annexing (which they’ve already started), that changes the dynamics of the city of South Fulton. Would we still be viable? I doubt it. There isn’t enough commercial development in unincorporated S. Fulton to divide between a new city and the existing cities trying to annex. The annexations would also take away from our viability just being unincorporated, since they’re trying to take commercial development and other “desirable” land that contributes to the South Fulton SSD. That would raise next year’s millage rate even more (not to mention the fact that it’s already going up due to the fact that South Fulton can’t draw $12 million from reserves again). And the residents that are annexed into the existing cities will be mad once they see what they’re getting (or not getting) in exchange for their higher taxes. So these annexations are dangerous all around.
Staying unincorporated is better than being annexed into a broke city, but forming a new city or being annexed into the city of Atlanta are the only reasonable options. We need to take time to explore them.
I also think we’re giving too much importance to this October 30 deadline. All is does is stop annexation until AFTER the vote. We should take our time, see what our millage rate is in January 2007, have another study done (by UGA and/or GSU) with the new millage rate, and see how viable a new city is then. Remember, the previous study done by Georgia State showed us viable with a 7.731 millage rate. Atlanta is higher than that. Unincorporated South Fulton will be higher than that in 2007. So let’s see what our viability will be with a 10 mill or 11 mill tax rate. Let’s compare apples to apples, not apples to Hyundais. We’re saying “Atlanta looks good,” which it does, but how would a city of South Fulton look with a millage rate closer to Atlanta’s? It’s viable at the 7.731. Would it be thriving with 10? Those are the questions we need to ask.
To answer your question about the city of Atlanta, we would have to be contiguous, which means Atlanta would have to take in A LOT of unincorporated South Fulton. But it also means we'd have a lot of clout, which is something to think about. We could seriously affect the Atlanta political scene, just by having the votes AND the available land. I'm close to the city limits, and talk is starting about possibly being annexed into Atlanta (a lot of people are concerned about whether we have the leadership to effectively start a new city - you see how hard it is to get people to come to school board meetings - you want them to run a city?!?! Not necessarily saying I agree, but it is something to think about). And of course there's the mayor-factor. Would you rather have Shirley Franklin for mayor, or someone who can't even VOTE for mayor (so it's safe to assume they have no experience RUNNING a city). Business and legal backgrounds are great, community activism is great, but if we're starting from scratch, we need political experience to balance it out. The other question is: how many seats would we get on the Atlanta City Council?
I hope you'll read ajc.com's comments in their new article about Atlanta's invitation to South Fulton unincorporated residents. The writer cites Atlanta's only two drawbacks as their "abysmally slow building permit process" and the increase in taxes. Since our taxes are going up anyway and we WANT a slower permitting process to reduce this runaway growth, there really wouldn't be any drawbacks...
Also, police officer salaries would start out at approximately $5,000 more with APD than with Fulton County. And that's WITHOUT the 3.5% raise proposed by Mayor Franklin.
www.myfultoncountyga.us
www.atlantaga.gov
I've tried to stay away from the "annex us Atlanta" talk. First off the city of Atlanta is only viable if you want to pay 8% sales tax, 12+ millage rate, high crime, disgruntle public safety employees, a city council that is too big for a city of its size, neighborhood planning units that are nothing but bureaucratic, six month waits for building permits, three month waits for water taps, and not to mention a lackluster school system that is dwindling.
FYI, Atlanta has some 96 schools for 50k students while Fulton County has 84 schools for nearly 82k students. That is wasteful. The money that is spent per student is nearly criminal. Higher paid teachers don't equate with quality teachers. The system is badly run and there is no way to sugar coat it. Look at the test scores as one factor, the graduation rate, teacher retention, low to no parental involvement, crime reports (if they choose to report the crimes), and academic achievement in general. Don't get me wrong Fulton County is not perfect, but it works. The schools in Sandtown are tops in South Fulton and would suffer under Atlanta's school bureaucracy.
As for the city council it's a joke. Last year, that council which by the way has too many folks on it was held hostage afraid to vote on the panhandling ordinance. This year, they voted to allow themselves to take gratuities until it was made public. Shirley Franklin is doing a good job. She's doing what her predecessor refuse to do and that is make people do their job. She only has three years remaining in office, then what?
Atlanta would destroy the balance of the developments in South Fulton. The reason people are down here is because its not Atlanta or any other city. The Bureau of Buildings can't get a permit out in less than 3 months. Fulton County does it in about 3 weeks.
I'm also afraid Atlanta would destroy what is happening with Sandtown Park. The programs at that park are run by volunteers. Atlanta would want total control which would limit the involvement of the volunteers. Have you ever seen people packed into an Atlanta park for baseball, softball or football? I haven't. Atlanta's Parks department doesn't have the patience or ability to handle those programs. Sandtown Park is a jewel and it along with Randolph, Stonewal Tell, Sandtown Middle and Westlake High would be in immediate jeopardy if the city took over.
As for city hood I'm not exactly sold on that idea until I can see some numbers that take into consideration a business plan for the new city day-to-day operations.
Several department should be contracted and I've said it in an earlier post.
**Anonymous its not about intimidation, it's about having a dialogue without the personal attacks***
Read my comments. Atlanta has more than 2 drawbacks.
James, please read S. Whites postings again. Some of what you have posted merely supports her points. She is obviously unbiased and knowledgeable on the subject matter.
After reading S. Whites comments, I am in favor of the City of Atlanta annexing us. If Sandtown thinks they can do better let them vote for East Point or maybe they need to have the experience of being represented by Bill Edwards. Which brings up this question? What comment was posted that seemed to be a personal attack someone? As for Bill Edwards, he is a public figure, commentary comes with that territory.
James, who are you and do you have any personal leanings on whom you would like in office?
How was this blog atarted? Was it mentioned at any of the areas resident meetings?
Take a drive in and around Atlanta. Pay close attention to the news and take note, the violent crimes are mostly in the suburban areas, not Atlanta. The state has bailed out on helping the Fulton County tax commissioners. So I guess that is another area that will get righted. Michael Hightower is now in the private sector, which is fine, you can take "gratuities" for influence in the business world. But when you are in public office to serve your constituants, you must not be swayed for self enrichment. You work for the people.
Does anyone think that this RATE of development has been in the interest of the residents?
I like Shirley Franklin more every day. When I saw her on the front page in the article about the erosion of soil into the Chattahoochee (?), well she does respond to how the law is written, which is more than I can say about our current representatives. When you already have the laws, yet can not get them enforced, that is beyond sad.
I called Shirley about a developer that had broken a fire hydrant. It was on a weekend, but she did Get'r Done, as the vernacular goes.
I'm sure Ms. White is knowledgeable. My concern about Atlanta has more to do with the schools and parks since that is where I spend my volunteer time. I'm guessing that you don't have school age children. I've spent a lot of my time attending school board meetings and writing e-mails advocating for better resources for our children including the building of Sandtown Middle School and the rebuilding of Westlake High. I just don't think going to Atlanta will help our schools.
As for the park again I spend my time volunteer coaching and money to support my two sons teams who participate in baseball and football. Atlanta parks don't have state qualifier in baseball, Sandtown has several.
Have you been to Adams Park lately, the place is a hot mess. The park is dirty and folks openingly drinking and smoking pot. They can't field enough teams, therefore they hold scrimmage games on Sunday to raise money. Our team plays there on a regular basis to stay sharp since teams from around the metro area play there. Our team won its state qualifier there earlier in the spring. People tend to look down on sports, but its keeping a lot of young people out of trouble. Sandtown happens to be the most family friendly park in Atlanta. There are at least 50 teams from age 3 - 14 playing baseball and another 3-4 teams of girls playing softball. Where else is there this level of participation in Atlanta or South Fulton? There isn't! Atlanta would destroy all of it.
East Point doesn't want Sandtown because it can not sustain it. If annexation by Atlanta is what Sandtown truly wants then so be it.
Shirley Franklin has done a good job. She has done what her predecesor failed to do. "MAKE PEOPLE DO THEIR JOB!!!" That's not hard. Unfortunately she can't be mayor for life and some people think.
Another problem is police enforcement. I work downtown, the parking lot I use is on Peachtree Street and two blocks from City Hall. The place is an open crack den. Folks sell and buy crack everyday all day. The police come by every now and then to arrest a few folks, but they continue to come back. Several months ago a young man was killed in the lot across the street. Naw, crime is only happening in the suburbs!!!
As for having strenghth with the state of Georgia as mentioned in an earlier post that's a load of horse manure. The state is run by REPUBLICANS who's only interest is destroying Atlanta and making her look bad. "We kicked Atlanta's ass" is what one legislator said all his folks want to hear when he goes back to South Georgia as written in an article in the Creative Loafing proved that earlier this year. The Republicans need to kicked out!!!
I started this blog to hear from the people on the issues. The politicians, cities and those with interest in creating new cities have all had their say. It's is time to hear from those that will be effected. To that end I'm also putting together a survey that will appear on my website:
www.southfultonliving.com
The survey is being done to find out what is the preference of those living in unincorporated South Fulton.
By the way, I love sports and politics, but I have no interest in becoming nothing more than a good husband and father. Besides I would have to divorce my wife and leave my kids to be a politician. I love them too much for that.
We agree whole heartedly about Republicans, James. They have just about totally ruined this country. And when the populace votes for the likes of Sonny Perdue and his ilk based on the credentials of being successful business men. Well, you get what their limited abilities are, moving money around. Notice how stagnent our state economy has been? Too many times the loss of a large company moving to Georgia has been supplicated without the blame being placed squarely where it belongs, with Sonny. I would love to see an audit of the GA Lottery. But back to Shirley, inspite of the acrimony and lack of consensus she has received from the state, she has done an amzing job. To throw this into the hands of local power mongers whom have already proven themselves to only have self interests...well, I don't want any more of that. Shirley has lived up to her word.
We never got Bill Edwards word, so how can we hold him accountable. He does not seem really comfortable in his position, to me.
I'm not betting on any long shots or being scared into wasting my vote.
Atlanta/Shirley is now able to concentrate on crime and reviving the city in that way. God knows she has had plenty on her plate before now. Bill Campbell was a huge cleanup chore.(By the way, what's taking his wife so long? I'd have been in divorce court immediately after the trial with plenty of evidence supplied by the Feds at little or no cost.) Also, there are funds coming up federally for education as soon as we get that air-head, party boy Bush out of office. (I guess he thought Iraq was going to be another Grenada or Kuwait.) Education will take a huge turn-around in the next administration. Just ask Bill and Melinda Gates. It has to. And education should be free, like it was in California at one time. If you can make the grade, then you can go and become a better citizen.
When will the level of outrage over our health care system that is really an insurance care system, get fixed? And the last thing we need is a Republican slight of hand like Dubya did on Medicare. It only became complicated because Dubya had to dance around the insurance lobbyists. tisk, tisk.
I don't know anything at all about the parks, but I will say this about the schools: the fact that APS has more schools for less students should say something. The fight in recent years has been for smaller schools. They have shown to be more effective (even though more costly). That's why so many parents have problems with the design of the new Westlake High School. They don't want an "expandable school." They don't think the school should get larger just because more students come. They want another school built when more students come. As far as the numbers you gave (schools and students), the only reason Fulton County doesn't have MORE schools is because of mismanagement of our tax dollars. They're being investigated by the federal government as we speak. SPLOST II funds provided 1 school for South Fulton, instead of the 5 or 7 that were promised. The contractors that built Sandtown just gave back $1 million dollars to the school board. Construction of Milton is still under investigation. And those numbers don't include the Jones-Hall Elementary School that is now stalled due to Fulton County Schools/Government bickering over who's paying for the road improvements. So the number of schools in Fulton County should actually be higher. The fact that it's not is due to mismanagement, racism and squandering of our money.
If the truth be told, I'm glad we're in the position right now. If Sandy Springs hadn't become a city, and if the Schaefer Amendment hadn't been passed, we wouldn't be having these conversations. We'd still be unincorporated and unhappy, but not talking about what we can do. And 5 or 6 years from now, after all the trees are gone, the runaway growth is even more rampant, and the schools are more overcrowded and run down, we would be wondering what happened and when.
The bottom line is the schools are becoming more and more overcrowded by this over development and lack of accountability by the school board. THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY LEFT. If they can't afford school programs, how are they going to pay for school buildings? And yet the Fulton Board of Commissioners is approving MORE SUBDIVISIONS! And with HIGHER DENSITY! The only way to stop this is to incorporate or be annexed into Atlanta to stall this rampant growth.
My "alias name" is SAD. Just to make that clear (don't want any problems like "anonymous", why do you hvae to have a blog name again??), this is SAD! I am not from Atlanta, or Georgia for that matter, so all of this is silly to me. I am an elementary school teacher with no children of my own, YOUR children become my children when they come into my classroom and I am SAD about the way the blog site is objectifying school like its the "cure all" for YOUR children! It's ridiculous to believe that school can compensate for the shortcomings of parents! INSANE! I deal with this stuff every year, with every class, parents who are haphazardly meandering through life paying bills and chasing silly ideals. The children get lost in YOUR lives and its sad. Fulton County Schools, Atlanta Public Schools--what's the difference??? Parents will still continue to just DROP their children off to be "taught". (HA!) What a joke, education starts in the HOME, with PARENTING, no school system can do anything past what YOU as the parent do at home, period. South Fulton can build schools all day--Atlanta can build schools all day, so what? I agree with h f davis, CHARTER SCHOOLS, HELLLLLLLLO, take some initiative parents, besides VOLUNTEERING in an already faultering education system--create your own education system for YOUR CHILDREN. ITS SAD!
Sandtown (which is my neck of the woods) is GOING to be annexed into Atlanta, period! I agree with S. White, not James. You (James) are coming from a "very bitter former employee of Atlanta stand point" and its sort of scary to realize that this is the foundation for the way you feel about annexation. Schools are terrible across the globe, your sons' school is no exception! Anyway, i just wanted to briely share my point of view.
P.S. PLEASE EVERYONE VOTE FOR ANNEXATION OR WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO TO BE ANNEXED INTO ATLANTA
Folks for your information I was born at Grady Hospital and raised in the Fourth Ward and East Atlanta. I attended APS from age three when my mother was a teacher's aide until I graduated from the former East Atlanta High School.
SAD how often have you turned a blind eye to bad educators in your system? As a student in APS we knew we had bad teachers but, they let us do whatever we wanted. As an adult I'm pissed because they (the bad teachers) were cheating us. Other teachers saw how bad they were, but didn't do anything either.
If you want to improve the schools have students rate the teachers and kick out the unions.
My objections to APS are deep. With some 50k students they are asking for a millage increase as well. For what? A bloated administration. If APS is the same as FC tell why APS teachers don't send their kids to APS schools. I'll tell you why, they know the system is not operated properly. I know two teachers and administrators who send their children to expensive private schools. For that matter, I know teachers who kids attended APS until the 90's when they said they had enough.
Some of you may not remember Jerome Harris the Superintendent for a very short period in the late 80's. He was fired because teachers and their union reps complained about his method of "dropping in" on teachers. He was making sure teachers were doing their job. That's ridiculous and the system has not recovered.
APS board was also very ineffective in the 90's. One went to jail for bribery others were shamed for their monthly televised joust. Folks in Atlanta business community found it necessary to push for a "better quality" of personnel on that board and that is why they changed.
I see APS students hanging out downtown everyday no Truant Officer no where to be found.
H.F. you can't change parents, they are not going to change. At least in this community some parents are taking responsibility for their kid education by getting involved. APS board isn't ready for "real" parental involvement. Have you seen there televised meetings? The room is EMPTY!!!!
Nothing will change my mind. For those wanting Atlanta to annex Sandtown and West Cascade remember "IT'S EDUCATION, STUPID!!!"
Will someone explain to me the digression of the discussion about incorporating and becoming a city or remaining unincorporated into this heated argument about Fulton County vs City of Atlanta schools? It has been my impression that County Government and County Schools and their budgets are separate and distinct. I don't recall County Schools being a line item in the Univ of Georgia Study. Was this factored into the analysis of the viability of South Fulton as a city? And if South Fulton incorporates and becomes a City of South Fulton, does that automatically mean the "county schools" become "city schools"?
As a teacher you should know Atlanta Public Schools will grow with Atlanta in an annexation. Becasue Atlanta has its own school system. On the other hand the other cities in Fulton County share the FC School System.
If Sandtown is annexed by Atlanta and those schools could be converted to APS depending up where the lines are drawn.
In response to the 911, police and fire question, I think that we can take a look at how Johns Creek, Milton and Sandy Springs handle the issue before we vote, which will provide more clarity on our options. I'm a strong advocate of learning from other people's mistakes. I also think we could form an alliance with Chattahoochee Hill Country as it relates to those services. One thing Sandy Springs is talking of doing is forming an alliance with the other North Fulton cities to provide those services, so the employees have more room for advancement and the cost is cheaper. We'll get the fire stations for $5,000 each. That's already been settled by the Board of Commissioners.
James, you're right about the 8% sales tax. That's something no one's discussed so far. But that brings up another question - would a city of South Fulton be viable with an increase in the sales tax and a corresponding millage rate (instead of the 10 or 11 or whatever the South Fulton SSD is next year)? Would that spread the cost of the city more equitably, rather than just putting that higher millage rate on homeowners? Right now, if the South Fulton SSD is short, the millage rate goes up, end of story. If we incorporate, there are impact fees, there's the sales tax, there's grant funding...
HFDavis - are these the same commissioners who are spreading false information about S. Fulton incorporating so we'll vote against it? I've already been blatantly lied to by one of them.
And just for the record, I'm not advocating annexation, just exploring the option. I'm actually leaning more towards incorporation. I think there are funding options that haven't been explored. I've tried talking to Commissioner Pitts about grant funding for the parks, but he just doesn't have the time to care about the entire county's needs. It's just not possible. Now, if we had more local control...
Ms. White the numbers are there yet. I'm withholding my support until I see a plan. The public safety issue is just one of them. Can SF contract with Fairburn, Union City and College Park? I don't know. What about a city hall? There's so much that needs to be worked out and it should be done in public.
I think a city of SF is currently too big. I would rather see the other municipalities take all the land south of the SF Parkway. That leaves a some what smaller city that could be manageable under a good business plan.
The parks should get a makeover from the 20+ developers that are pillaging our communities.
I think a moratorium on residential development until after July 2007 would be the way to go. Whatever's in the hopper next month should be the last.
All this nonsensical talk about millage rates and SSD funds....South fulton residents are dreaming if they think that creating little south fulton cities will be any better than what's going on now as an unincorporated portion of fulton county!! It's ridiculously clear that Sandy Springs is having a trying time coping with their transition and they have more of a tax base and infrastructure than south fulton "cities" will probably ever have. The bottomline is clear, south fulton county is incapable of "growing" and maintaining itself.
Dear HF Davis,
Please refrain from inflamatory speech such as "masa". Let's put down the rocks. I would not think of calling anyone names in an attempt to vent my outrage. Like it or not we are ALL brothers and sisters.
About South Fulton schools, I agree with you whole-heartedly. We've been screwed. But was it rape or consensual, so to speak? What happened?
When my son entered the first grade, my first attempt was with a private school, very close to Twin Lakes. After two, non-productive weeks there we were very happy to put him in public school. He remained at the public school until the 4th grade. He remained in that local public school until this monster called school consolidation (new school with 4 4th grades and a vice principal that just couldn't hide her racist anger.) FORCED us to change schools again. We then moved to a Catholic School and found it small, demanding and a great atmosphere. After that, it was on to high school. We then chose a private one. 1. It had smaller classes, experienced teachers, and a very good academic curriculum.
2. We didn't have to have any more than the usual fears for our childs safety. This was after what we had heard from parents with students already in the school he would have been assigned.
And I'll tell you a little secret. I knew one of the people on the state level that "dreamed" up this massive schools for children. He was single, childless, (thank God) and had such a superiority complex....well, clueless is the word. He was brilliant but not the type of professional the state needed in this capacity. This was under Gov Joe Frank Harris, I believe. Early 80's.
I do hope there is an investigation into the disparity of funding that has been spent on the new schools on the South side and the criminally insane amounts that were doled out to the North side.
At what point do we demand accountability without race being a line of demarcation? My great-grandfather was an intimate friend of Henry Grady. (verifiable if you believe The Atlanta Constitution article.) I am ready for this city to continue its forward movement at warp speed.
S. White, you are quite the thinker.
I mean that with all sincerity. I enjoy reading your comments.
I think its time for south fulton residents to be realistic.
Staying unincorporated with a higher millage rate and no local control isn't beneficial, especially with the prospect of there being 4 Republican and only 3 Democratic commissioners after this election (who would have thought that ZONING would be PARTISAN?!?!).
Being annexed by a broke city isn't a good idea for ANY of unincorporated South Fulton, below S. Fulton Parkway OR above it. If they want to go, that's on them. But being annexed into a broke city is like marrying a broke man, then complaining about why you can't afford to go anywhere. Besides, crime travels. If their kids don't have parks, if their kids don't have anything to do, our neighborhoods are very close when they're trying to appease their boredom by getting into trouble. This isn't the U.S. and Mexico. There's no border patrol. There's no line that can't be crossed.
All of South Fulton being incorporated into one city (exclusive of Chattahoochie Hill Country) IS rather large. But I'm pretty sure Fairburn, Palmetto and the other low-millage rate cities will lure some people away by the lower taxes. So the city size will decrease by October 30.
All of S. Fulton being annexed into the already-large city of Atlanta would be a monstrosity. If we're talking about local control and we're in a city that takes up most of the county, how local is it really?
As far as Sandy Springs having more commercial, our millage rate would offset that. I hate to keep bringing that up, but we're talking about Sandy Springs being at 4.731. They NEED the commercial to offset that. Our millage rate is going to be higher, so we don't necessarily need the commercial if we're at a higher millage rate. The millage rate decreases when the commercial comes (or the million dollar homes - isn't Le Jardin in unincorporated South Fulton?).
Once again, to compare apples to apples, we have to consider the fact that S. Fulton's millage rate will increase before we vote. Atlanta's is already high. East Point's is already high. The GSU study shows a lower millage rate than ALL of them. So if you don't think we have the $$ at 7.731, let's use a comparable millage rate to what Atlanta and S. Fulton's SSD will have. Honestly, we started out at 4.731. If I'm paying over 10, I want my own city. And my bulk waste pickup.
James - You're right about there needing to be more open dialogue. But you're obviously doing something about that with this blog and the southfultonliving website, and (slowly) there are other forums becoming available too. We just shouldn't rush to sign any petitions until we've seen all of our options. I think there are more city skeptics than advocates. If it's not a clearly obvious choice by 2007, then the vote will reflect that. Then people can annex or remain unincorporated. But there's no need to rush.
As far as a moratorium on building is concerned, it won't pass. Commissioner Edwards tried last year, and the northside commissioners didn't go for it. I don't remember how Pitts and Boxill voted, but at least one of them voted against it because it didn't get 4 votes. Darnell and (obviously) Edwards voted in favor. The northside commissioners have the general attitude of "we can't tell people what to do with their land."
anonymous does not mean "uninvolved". South Fulton cannot become a city--in whole or in Part. Whatever studies you all are lookign at are all flawed. I feel so sad for all of you who are prepared to lose what little south fulton already has by becoming another one of these "broke" cities bloggers are referring to. South Fulton will be a broke city, PERIOD. Think about the LONG TERM, becoming a city is SPELLS DISASTER. WE CANNOT AFFORD IT. Forget about Sandy Springs, they are oranges and we are apples. There is no comparison.
And for the record, from what I see, NEW RESIDENTS make up a large number of south fulton's population at this point and all of this historical political debate means nothing to these people ( I am one of them). I have lived in south futon for a year and I am astonished at the lack of EVERYTHING. I'm just waiting to reap the benfits of the great investment I made in what I purchased by being annexed into a city (Atlanta) that IS already viable and alive. Creating something new is impossible for south fulton, there is no support.
Its about ECONOMICS--not politics AND certainly not your personal connection with Georgia (for those of you who were born here and will die here), its purely ECONOMICS. What I am reading on this site is amazing to say the least. It is clear that HOPE, precedes INTELLIGENCE. Hope will not support a city, ECONOMICS will. There just is not enough money in the right places (i.e, commerical). All of those things will come shortly though, but being hasty and becoming a city will be a step backward not forward for south fulton. LEADERSHIP is a major probelm in south fulton (as it is everywhere else too), African American leadership has always bothered me--we take everything so personel (most of us) and its to our detriment everytime. Bill Edwards is a mess, I dont care what any of you say--he is a mess, a talking suit and tie. This is the person who has been leading us???? Lord help us. I pray that every south fulton resident begins to look at this thing OBJECTIVELY take all of your "personal feelings" out of it--because its never personal its always business ladies and gentelmen. Taxes going up will happen on either side of the coin, whether we join Atlanta, start our own "broke" city or remain "in the woods" as unincorporated. Think about your childrens FINANCIAL future, your homes (the only asset most African Americans can claim) will be worth more in Atlanta (a city well known) not in an unknown city of south fulton. THIINK! The integrity of our greenspace will be an amazing draw for people who want to live in the city but not "in the city", south fulton can stay south fulton "aesthetically" but gain the support of a larger city.
Atlanta is not the perfect city but WE can affect change in that city, that is possible.
Annonymous - You said "LEADERSHIP is a major probelm in south fulton (as it is everywhere else too), African American leadership has always bothered me--we take everything so personel (most of us) and its to our detriment everytime."
**I'm a little unclear at what you're getting at. You advocate being annexed into Atlanta. What race is the majority of their leadership?
On another note, it's not about hope vs. intelligence. Looking at options that haven't been explored by Fulton County doesn't equal "hope" or "lack of intelligence." It's actually the more intelligent thing to do. The bottom line is that the TWO people we have representing our entire portion of Fulton County aren't doing all that can be done for us to be where we need to be. Fulton County DOESN'T charge impact fees, which ARE a source of income for a city. And because of the crime, drugs and prostitution that Fulton County allows to permeate in the Fulton Indstrial area, some of those businesses are threatening to leave if something isn't done. A city of South Fulton wouldn't allow those things to happen.
And with all due respect, you knew what South Fulton had (or didn't have) when you moved here. The commercial didn't disappear when you closed on your house - it wasn't here to begin with. If "all of those things will come shortly" as you say, starting a city in December 2007 isn't necessarily a bad idea. True, Sandy Springs has more commercial. But a city of South Fulton will have Fulton Industrial Blvd, the largest industrial complex of its kind in the southeast. And they'll be paying more taxes. If the rest of Fulton County is incorporated or annexed, Fulton Industrial will HAVE to be annexed into the city of Atlanta. Otherwise, they'll be paying Fulton County for police, fire, 911, etc. ON THEIR OWN as the only unincorporated part of the county. That will raise their millage rate astronomically. So they'll have to lift the annexation block by the State legislature. And once that's lifted, they're automatically a part of the city of South Fulton.
I meant Fulton Industrial will have to be annexed into the city of South Fulton...
Another issue we need to take into consideration is the fact that there is talk of SPLITTING FULTON COUNTY: either into two counties or three. If two counties, Atlanta and South Fulton would still be Fulton County, and North Fulton would be something else.
If the county is split into three counties, it would go back to the original three - South Fulton (Campbell County), Atlanta (Fulton County), and north Fulton (Milton County). That's what they were originally.
If we are annexed into the city of Atlanta, the county can only be split into two. GUESS WHO THEN HAS RESPONSIBILITY FOR MARTA AND GRADY? Some legislators ran for office on the premise that they wanted to split Fulton County, and they're being very aggressive in this. The legislator that proposed splitting Fulton County first IS A DEMOCRAT!! (Sam Zamarippa). I don't understand why people in the state legislature have such a distaste for Atlanta and South Fulton, but the point is we have to look at the long term AND what's happening now. And the attempts to split the county are happening NOW.
As a point of reference, www.southfultonconcernedcitizens.com has information in its meeting minutes section that discusses the amount of money that can be brought in from impact fees and the local option sales tax, neither of which our SSD gets from Fulton County. It also provides more in-depth information on their efforts as they relate to working with the Fulton Co. fire chief (who lives in South Fulton) to create a regional fire authority.
The minutes also state that Commissioner Edwards attended these meetings, and projected the South Fulton SSD millage rate in 2007 being in the 10.731-11.5 mills range.
We also have to take into consideration the fact that as an unincorporated area, we'll be paying for all of our services when 2007 hits. The 10.731-11.5 mills will cover it all. The LOST funds and impact fees that we don't get now will cover the added expenses of being a city, as will the other fees that we can collect as a city. Once again, since we keep coming back to Sandy Springs, they don't have as much of an option of bringing in impact fees, since they're already pretty much developed. The minutes suggest $1,000 or 1% per house. With as many houses as we have coming on line, the total from this source alone will be in the millions.
s.white. Please. Atlanta is run by African Americans (duh) but its ESTABLISHED. I have no faith in South Fulton STARTING a city that will be able to thrive as Atlanta is thriving, period. Numbers from a GSU report are just numbers...youi allare putting too much faith into this "study". That's a little unintelligent to me. I'm not putting all of my apples into no ONE or TWO miserly studies. GET REAL. Atlanta has proven itself top be aviable city. South Fulton will start out on the WRONG FOOT. Atlanta is established, period. That's what I mean, I'm not interested in a city of south fulton and I pray that that option will not come true.
Before I closed on my house I knew what "part of town" I was buying into. I knew about the lack of commercial tax base and the terrible tax assessment issues with fulton county. I was confident then that my home will eventually become apart of Atlanta (city), and I am even more confident now after participating in this blog (I hope more than just the 4 of us will be on this blog site....this site resembles my community meeting every 1st of the month; ironic??)
Maybe I took your "African American leadership" comment too "personal." It seems like living down the street from John Lewis, Joseph Lowery, Andrew Young, etc. would have at least shown us that African American communities do have capable African American leaders living within their boundaries. Or is it that we can lead major cities, global organizations, civil rights movements.... but not a city of 52,000. Yet I digress...
What part of the study do you dispute? The cost of the services? The number of people paying for the services? The tax rate? The growth rate? Numbers can be manipulated, I know. But if we look at what the services cost now, and how many people live here right now, and the type of growth we're experiencing right now, and the funds that we're not receiving right now (LOST money goes to the general fund, not the SSD; impact fees aren't being charged at all), and our tax rate right now, what part do you dispute?
And as I'm sure you're aware, being annexed into Atlanta doesn't (unfortunately) get rid of the assessors.
And will the Church say "AMEN"
So we are where? Some want annexation and others don't. Some want a city and others don't. No one wants to be unincorporated?
Where are we going?
Ms. White does have a point. Atlanta will have to float S. Fulton for a minute. I can't see APS building ANY schools. So give up on the annexation.
Bella, Union City or any other municipality can't build schools because it doesn't have the authority. That is the job of FC Schools and AP Schools to do that. It will be APS if any parts of SF are annexed by Atlanta. Just remember IT'S EDUCATION STUPID!!!
Take the Survey on the Future of South Fulton at:
http://www.southfultonliving.com
Sad, Please use proper etiquette and don't type in all caps. I guess being a part of Atlanta is better? Huh?
Atlanta's Full Court Press is on for Sandtown and West Cascade
Move could cripple plans for a new city of South Fulton
Sporting a shiny brochure and touting its services the City of Atlanta is pressing ahead to acquire Sandtown and West Cascade. With an offer to extend its Urban Enterprise Zone along Campbellton Road into the heart of the Sandtown community Atlanta is making promises that could bring "Blue Print Sandtown" to life.
Several of Atlanta's departments are boasting how they can deliver better services.
The Police Department is offering to extend Zone 4 which covers a huge area of Atlanta known as "the SWATs". In addition they are offering more beats and to possibly man a mini precinct in Sandtown (where?)
Atlanta Fire Rescue is talking about acquiring the fire station on Cascade Road or building a new station if needed. (Again where?)
Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs will not be left out they say they can manage Sandtown Park and look to acquire more green space. (Once again where?) What about the programs that are currently working?
Public Works, Planning and Community Development and Watershed Management are getting into the act also.
With such a plan for annexation on the table. A new city of South Fulton could be lost. Economic projections were depending heavily on Sandtown to make the city viable.
The brochure also projected taxes for Atlanta will ultimately be lower than a future unincorporated South Fulton.
I caution homeowners, this plan is at least eight to ten years in the making. Franklin is mayor for another 3. Priorities change, the Beltline and sewer repairs will cost a mint. Not to mention schools.
After attending an awsome meeting this morning hosted by AWCC at the Cascade Fire Station, it was obvious citizens need and want information to be able to make a quality decision. We have one year, until about June 2007, to become intelligent on the question of whether we do or do not wish to become annexed by Atlanta or any other City in South Fulton County. So, please stop saying Sandtown is going to be in Atlanta, or West Cascade is going to be in Atlanta. Each individual voter and/or property owner will have the opportunity next year to vote yea or nea on the issue. Until then, let's gather as much factual information as is possible and let's attend as many community meetings we can schedule in order to become better informed on the importance of our vote next year.
Throughout the blog and in several meetings recently, the question of schools, quality of schools and what happens to existing South Fulton schools has been raised. An excellent statement is provided in the Q&A section on the homepage of southfultoncitizens.org. It would appear the South Fulton schools would remain in South Fulton.
Sad I've worked the last 11 years with the youth of Sandtown first coaching and running the soccer program with a group of great volunteers and now as a volunteer coach with baseball. As a matter of fact, I was once called an "Uncle Tom" by a member of the Sandtown community in a meeting when I supported a soccer club in Dunwoody's proposal to build a soccer complex at Enon and Camp Creek Pkwy. That project would have done wonders for this community - lost opportunity.
I don't want to see Sandtown Park go away. I can say from experience Atlanta Parks are nothing more than hang outs for drunks and drug addicts. What's worse the city has no interest in changing it!!! In the door way of Bedford Pines gymnasium men were drinking alcohol and smoking reefer. Did the management of the gym go out to ask them to stop? No!!!
No, I don't want to lose what we have built, but I have come to the realization it may happen. What said is a lot of people of aren't interested in the park. Just remember promises are made to be broken.
I sit here wondering why, all of a sudden, Campbellton Road is so HOT! Since about the mid 70's the Greenbriar Mall and Campbellton Road have been in a decline. When Greenbriar Mall was developed by John Portman as the first all-enclosed mall in the late '60s with Rich's and JCPenney's as the anchor tenants, and 166 was constructed leading to and ending at the Mall, Campbellton Road was "automobile row" with all the new auto franchise dealerships on the South Side. Deerfield Apartments was the bomb, and Loch Lomond Trail and Niskey Lake were heaven. Things do change over time with no leadership downtown. The Greenbrial Mall area residents and surrounding neighborhoods even joined together with a vision and were awarded a LCI Grant to revitalize the area. What happened to the dream, the vision and the money? Now, all of a sudden the City wants to focus on Campbellton Road to Boat Rock Road deep into South West Fulton and extend its influence into an area where it has never been able to accomplish one goal. Like the lady said "I Can Do Bad All By Myself". Cascade Road was accomplished by active, dedicated and committed citizens and a caring and sensitive Board of Commissioners, and every since, the City has wanted to claim South West Fulton County. Thanks but no thanks.
That is good information and oh so true. I remember Wild Cherry's, Red Lobster, Bonanza, I-Hop, Mr. V's Night Club, McDonald's just to name a few.
James, You really went there! We even had a movie theatre, two as a matter of fact. One in the Mall and one at Westgate. Wow!
At the AWCC Meeting on Cityhood Saturday we actually had "so called" community leaders try in desperation to make a racial appeal to blacks that WE must not miss this opportunity to create an all black city.
As a black man, I reject this low level of race politics. In their zeal to achieve cityhood they don't want to bother with inconvenient things like the FACTS:
Legislative Affairs at the State Capital says proposed City of South Fulton is 80% Black and 20% White.
Of course there are some who will pursue their objective by any means necessary even if it means spreading falsehoods to those who do not confirm the rhetoric they hear.
If I have to choose between fiscal solvency so I can receive essential life safety services and making history - guess which one I would choose.
Has anyone questioned who is providing the funding for the well organized South Fulton group’s effort to derail annexation plans by any cities in south Fulton County?
Do we know who is writing the checks to buy materials for promoting cause that are expensive such as yard signs, bumper stickers, etc?
Did you know those the “talking heads” represent are also planning to do an expensive direct mail to residents in the areas which would be annexed telling them that they should not even think about becoming part of any city in south Fulton or Atlanta?
There are a number of would-be politicians who are promoting the idea of a City of South Fulton County just so that they can run for office. This idea of creating a new city where the political types can seek election is supported by current and former politicians. They don’t care about what is best for US, just what will allow them to gain or increase their political power.
The public should wake up and realize the real motive behind the push for a new city in south Fulton County and ruthless tactics against cities wishing to incorporate areas is designed to enhance the political objectives of a group of politicos. These persons are presenting “data” to communities showing that the proposed city would be financially feasible; however, an independent analysis shows that the city would not be financially feasible and would end up in bankruptcy or receivership within two years.
Ask these organizations to come clean and list their contributors. Until you know who is paying for these efforts, you will not have the motivational perspective or insight into why they really support incorporation.
Our homes and quality of life are on the line here folks. Do we really want to roll the dice to further the political aspirations of a few and end up like Lithonia?
Hosea 4:6 says “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge…..”
Dear Anonymous,
I am glad to see "Operation Cockroach" has finally commenced!! The campaign to expose the “rest of the story” behind the frantic unprincipled efforts to snow the many residents of South Fulton into creating a new political powerhouse to benefit the few has commenced.
We will see if the moderator censures your post because it might offend the political royalty who cannot be criticized for anything. One wonders what was in those comments that were deleted. I would understand if profanity was used. However criticism of elected officials comes with the territory. All we are doing is revealing that the emperors have no clothes.
James,
What do you think about remaining unincorporated? Is it viable? Is it an option?
James,
I'd like to gain some perspective on your opinions based on where you live in South Fulton. Some say you like in Sandtown, others say you've moved to Clifftondale. What community's perspective do you represent?
James,
I'd like to gain some perspective on your opinions based on where you live in South Fulton. Some say you like in Sandtown, others say you've moved to Clifftondale. What community's perspective do you represent?
James, I am requesting your assistance in establishing my own PIN name, simply because I no longer with to be associated with "anonymous". Different groups of citizens in Fulton County have come together to incorporate, and each group has its individual desires and reasons for doing so: Sandy Springs, Johns Creek (Northeast), Milton (Northwest) all recently, and previously Alpharetta, Roswell, Atlanta, College Park, East Point, Palmetta, Union City, etc., etc., and now it is South Fulton and Chattahoochee Hill Country's time to decide what direction their citizens with to take. And I repeat, Their Citizens, wish to take. In the mean time, LET'S CHILL OUT, PLEASE! "swfulton"
To create blogger account click "Sign Up Here". Enter your information. When it asks for a blog site skip to advance set up. Then close the window. You will have a blogger account.
Now to my preference. I'd rather be left alone. UNINCORPORATION FOREVER!!!
I have no intentions on trying to persuade anyone in any direction. You should do what you feel is best for you and your family.
BTW, if an entry was removed it was removed by the author not the host. I have no interest in censoring anyone. There are too many people trying to censor thought as it is.
To those who actually think we can remain unincorporated, the beauty of doing nothing is that you can do it perfectly. Only when you do something is it almost impossible to do it without mistakes. People who refuse to consider legitimate annexation offers from Atlanta or other cities can feel both intellectually and morally superior.
Well said. One thing is for sure, remaining unincorporated will save our schools from certain demise. Read the AJC 6/13/2006. CRCT Test Scores.
Sister White, I can assure you. If incorporation is voted down the cities will NOT attempt a land grab. If that was the case they would have came-a-knocking prior to Sandy Springs' incorporation. It's posturing and political in a political year.
That was a joke that remaining unincorporated will save the schools right? Whether we remain unincorporated or form the City of South Fulton EITHER WAY we remain status quo in the broke Fulton County School System with a voting deadlock of North Fulton VS South and loosing 5-2. These guys can renege on the Westlake rebuild by not renewing the TAD. Although if you note that all major cities have failing schools nationally, ultimately it is up to the parents to make the difference. The schools in APS (generally Northside) with very active parent groups do well. Look at the stats. While Fulton is cutting programs, Atlanta has tons of money to spend on schools and additional $150 million from the beltline TAD alone. For those who think APS is the kiss of death, there is always the option of taking Sandtown schools Charter. Charter or not Sandtown schools would return to neighborhood schools because the MS for instance would not have kids from South Fulton that should be going to Camp Creek coming. Instead of nearly 2,000 students at Sandtown MS this fall as they tear up the parking lot as we speak to accommodate 28 classrooms in trailers in the parking lot, everyone would fit in the building with a student body of under 1,000. The community is now between a rock and a hard place. Fulton County Board took every dime and put it in North County. There is no assurance with a new SPLOST III that they would still spend in South County. The Board is clever enough not to violate the law so there is no law suit. Southwest Fulton is not in a great spot but it is about weighing the lesser of two evils. APS is not as bad as people think. Unfortunately, we have so many poor children in this city, and it takes more than money to make a difference. The issue is about making better communities.
Let me give you facts...check the Ga DOE Report Card website... APS northside schools are doing okay. Fulton northside schools are doing better. APS southside schools are suffering as are Fulton's, but to a lesser degree. If anyone should be doing a better job teaching black children it's APS. With such a strong presence of black administrators and professional teachers APS should be kicking butt. It's not!!! APS is raising it's millage rate by the way.
If APS takes over Sandtown, Randolph and Westlake. Let me give you this scenario. Westlake will be merged with Mays or Therrell because there wouldn't be enough students to justify keeping it open, otherwise the districts would be redrawn to close Therrell. Sandtown would merge with Bunche (oh boy) while Bunche is phased out and Randolph would have barely 500 students (the only good thing). The teachers at the former Westlake would quit in disgust as will the Sandtown teachers.
James,
You speak of the implications of APS with such certainty. As you look in your crystal ball what do you predict will happen with annexation and the referrendum?
Shironda, To my knowledge there was no referendum at all passed by the legislation to allow the annexation of Fulton Industrial Boulevard. Even it the legislature added it to the ballot next session, the vote would be countywide. The rest of Fulton has no inclination to give up that revenue stream to either Atlanta or South Fulton cities. ANY financial analysis that counts on FIB is intrinsically flawed. This is why the Eger study had to be redone without FIB to have any semblance of credibility. If you look at the numbers Bill Edwards sent out yesterday from the look of things on the surface for the city of SFC with or without “FIB” the city of SFC would be in the hole. This is not looking good for the incorporation of a new city.
S. White, If you as an APS employee knew of address fraud taking place in your school. Why didn't you report it?
In response to "James said...
Sister White, I can assure you. If incorporation is voted down the cities will NOT attempt a land grab. If that was the case they would have came-a-knocking prior to Sandy Springs' incorporation. It's posturing and political in a political year."
James, Neither Mayor Shirley Franklin of Atlanta nor Mayor Joe Macon are running for election this year, so how do you figure this is election year posturing?
If anyone is posturing it is the 3 political Musketeers (we all know whom) that are leading our community off of a cliff for their own political aspirations.
Did any one stop and think about how awful things are gonna change and how fast it's gonna grow and populate. Life in the quiet discreet south fulton is over. The greedy politicans and greed developers have arrived. I should of stayed in Douglas county.
Woooooosh. I think that was the gust of air created as my property value just plummeted. Between the economy and the prospects for incorporation, no one will want to move here. And if the rumors of what I hear for special financing go through with this administration, no one will be able to afford it either.
James will you the lights. Bye.
For those you wondered who the three musketeers are, check who is sponsoring the "Movie in the Park" tonight. These three will all still remain in power should South Fulton incorporate and probably one of them will run for mayor. There will also be a number of city council positions for “Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves” to fill, and brand new “Municipal Jobs Program” to reward their collaborators and designated anti-annexation attack dogs.
If you think politicians permitted the developers unbridled growth in South Fulton before, just wait and see what happens with incorporation. Any and all semblance of quality development will go out the door as it becomes clear that warnings of a huge deficit were true and we find ourselves desperately needing the revenue just any sort of development will bring.
Who do you think funding the lion's share of the alleged "South Fulton Concerned Citizens Group" - developers and politicians! These are the same folks in bed we have to blame for our current predicament. Are you actually naïve enough to look to them to provide unbiased information to help you guarantee their political tenure? Wise up if you put your trust in either or both of these groups, you mamma raised a fool.
Well, folks. Something to chew on. It's 11pm at night. The water pressure at our house is extremely low. No other faucets or spigets on, just the kitchen tap to put some water in the dogs' bowl. The news is on. There is a fire in Carrollton, I believe they said it's a mill that is burning. Now, if we have a fire down here in little old south Fulton county, your home or mine, how do you think they are going to put it out with the water pressure as it is? Also, these poor souls that have another house with 10 or 15 feet of theirs, how many homes and lives will be lost due to the lack of water from the overbuilding situation? I never thought much about this until tonight when I simultaneously observed these two potentially devestating factors at work. The perfect storm as it were. This is not good. How long will it be before insurance companies refuse to insure or pay claims by attributing the loss to lack of water and lack of planning due to the county and it's commissioners? By the way, I have observed some workers of a developement getting water from a hydrant with a large hose that did not have a meter on it. That's OUR water folks! They are supposed to have a meter and a permit to get that water! So the saying goes....If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
Atlanta controls the build out of water resources in SF. Not Fulton County. You should call FC and Atlanta to deal with the situation.
In the interests of accuracy some have been saying that at least 52,000 people reside in unincorporated south Fulton County.
Based on the most recent voter
registration information from Fulton County Elections and Registration, 35,771 persons
are registered to vote in south Fulton County.
I guess that the remaining persons are too young to register, or maybe adults who do not see any reason to register to vote.
it only takes 50+1% of those voting to make sf a city. total voters mean nothing. ask sandy springs - 14-16% went to the polls.
Things could change.
An Open Letter to Residents Regarding the Issue of Annexation
I decided to write this letter after personally hearing State Representative Roger Bruce and Bennie Crane misrepresent the facts about annexation. Following is a brief outline of annexation as it pertains to the the timetable for annexation and its relationship to the proposed City of South Fulton County:
Existing cities in south Fulton County have the legal authority to annex land which is contiguous to their existing corporate boundaries. This process must be completed by October 2006. Any area of south Fulton County which has not been annexed will form the boundaries of the proposed City of South Fulton County. Residents will vote in 2007 to decide if such a city shall become a reality.
2. Roger Bruce and Bennie Crane have been telling residents that there is no need to rush toward annexation with any city, because there is plenty of time to think and bout the issue next year.
This is an attempt to stop the annexation process so that the physical territory of the proposed City of South Fulton County will not be disturbed. The truth is that any part of south Fulton County which is not annexed into an existing city in 2006, will by operation of law become part of the proposed City of South Fulton County. There will not be an opportunity for any community to be annexed into an existing city after 2006. The intense effort to dissuade residents from signing annexation petitions is fueled by a number of current elected officials who have already decided how they are going to “run” for mayor and council seats.
Mr. Bruce would best serve his community by remaining totally neutral about the issue.
Mr. Bruce and Mr. Crane know that boundaries which were established by the legislature for the proposed City of South Fulton County, will definitely shrink to perhaps no more than half of the current area. The boundaries will be redrawn to reflect the new area for the proposed City of South Fulton County. Voters will vote on the new boundaries in 2007.
Dan Young
reply to: danpyoung@bellsouth.net
Sadly the South Fulton Incorporation proponents will resort to any means necessary to pursue their goals. Now they are moving from misinformation to telling folks not to listen to opposing views. In this case these forces don't even want you to attend a meeting. I guess they think people are too stupid to make decisions for themselves. As a duly appointed representative of the 3 musketeers, look at Reggie Tatum's email vent encouraging people not to be informed. The acts of a desperate man call into question the legitimacy of his position.
This is what Reggie Tatum wrote: "All
I meeting is scheduled for June 29, at Sandtown Middle School, at 6:30 PM, to interact with the Atlanta School board. A strong movement is going on to try to turn SMS,APR-ELM-S, and WHS, over to the City of Atlanta school system. I encourage all citizens of South Fulton not to attend that meeting. Teachers in Fulton County's school system are beginning to flee to other county's and cities in fear of becoming involved with Atlanta school system.
Reggie Tatum
404-217-2058
And as a partial result of the above comments, I put my home on the market for sale last week. This is ridiculous and I am taking my tax dollars elsewhere, south fulton county good luck and good riddens!
Here's some knee deep spin from Benny Crane of South Fulton "Concerned" Citizens - to hear them tell it this group is fair and balanced. The reality is regardless of the analysis they profess to undergo - their decision was made at the outset to incorporate devoid of any facts at all.
Desperate men will say anything and anything to pursue their political aspirations. If the annexation attempts by the existing cities are doomed to failure, why is SFCC working so hard and spending so much money to prevent them and stifle anything that suggests that there are viable options to becoming incorporated.
Ask Benny Crane if he like Reggie Tatum wants to hold an office in the city of South Fulton. This is what he said in response to Reggie Tatum saying don't attend the Atlanta School Informational meetings:
"I believe it is important to attend every meeting, regardless of which Governmental agency is hosting it. This is the only way to get information (from their perspective) and to ask the tough questions that must be asked and answered. Additionally, it is important to hear the spin that each of the existing cities are pump out to their targeted areas."
SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE POLITICIAN - this is a well orchestrated power grap by folks who want us to believe we should trust them "because they look like us" The 3 musketeers have trained them well... Don't believe the hype!!
WHAT IS BECOMING INCORPORATED DO TO FIX THE SCHOOL PROBLEM? – ABSOULUTELY NOTHING! Because for education being incorporated into a city is status quo for schools.
Normally I would not react to emails of someone expressing their opinion because we all have a right to an opinion. However, Dan Young crossed the line by saying that I misrepresented the facts. As such I want to correct him. We do in fact have time to decide what we want to do. We have until the vote is taken next year to decide. If the community, based on information provide, does not want to become the City of South Fulton, they should vote no for the referendum. The existing cities will then have the right to annex any area contiguous to it. The reason for the temporary delay after Oct of this year is to allow time for the map to be finalized before the vote so that people will know what they are voting for. Again once the vote is taken in 2007, if it fails, the ban will be lifted and cities can resume their annexation attempts.
Dan if you felt that I misrepresented the facts, it would seem that the community would have been better served if you said that at the meeting in my presence so that the truth could have come out then. I think you are and have been very disingenuous in your dealings with the community. To hide behind the privacy of email and spread lies about someone's intent is cowardly.
Finally, I think you should be working to help bring our community together, rather than constantly pretending that you know what's best for us without having the facts to back it up.
Roger Bruce
An Open Letter to Residents Regarding the Issue of Annexation
I decided to write this letter after personally hearing State Representative Roger Bruce and Bennie Crane misrepresent the facts about annexation. Following is a brief outline of annexation as it pertains to the the timetable for annexation and its relationship to the proposed City of South Fulton County:
Existing cities in south Fulton County have the legal authority to annex land which is contiguous to their existing corporate boundaries. This process must be completed by October 2006. Any area of south Fulton County which has not been annexed will form the boundaries of the proposed City of South Fulton County. Residents will vote in 2007 to decide if such a city shall become a reality.
2. Roger Bruce and Bennie Crane have been telling residents that there is no need to rush toward annexation with any city, because there is plenty of time to think and bout the issue next year.
This is an attempt to stop the annexation process so that the physical territory of the proposed City of South Fulton County will not be disturbed. The truth is that any part of south Fulton County which is not annexed into an existing city in 2006, will by operation of law become part of the proposed City of South Fulton County. There will not be an opportunity for any community to be annexed into an existing city after 2006. The intense effort to dissuade residents from signing annexation petitions is fueled by a number of current elected officials who have already decided how they are going to “run” for mayor and council seats.
Mr. Bruce would best serve his community by remaining totally neutral about the issue.
Mr. Bruce and Mr. Crane know that boundaries which were established by the legislature for the proposed City of South Fulton County, will definitely shrink to perhaps no more than half of the current area. The boundaries will be redrawn to reflect the new area for the proposed City of South Fulton County. Voters will vote on the new boundaries in 2007.
Dan Young
reply to: danpyoung@bellsouth.net
Sunday, June 25, 2006 6:25:35 PM
Roger Bruce calling anyone disingenuous in their dealings with the community is like the pot calling the kettle black.
Folks remember what is the right decision for the politicians is not neccesarily the right decision for you.
Incorporation may be the right decision for some communities AND being annexed might be the right decision for others.
Those signing petitions to be annexed are exercising their legal right to choose now rather than wait until later.
I caution you not to believe everything politicians tell you just "because they look like you".
Dear Mr.. Young, I too try very hard to refrain for getting caught up in shouting matches over a persons opinions. This one warrants a response because I am one that will say in public whatever I say in private and not hide behind the veil of an e-mail.
Senate Bill 552, which gives the citizens of South Fulton County the opportunity to vote next year and limits the existing cities opportunity to annex to October 30th, does not preclude existing cities from any annexation after the June 2007 referendum, should we vote "NO" to the creation of the new city. I have always urged the citizens of South Fulton to know the facts surrounding this issue, the creation of a new city or remaining unincorporated. You of all people should know that, you were at the meeting. You failed to tell your listening audience that I urged the people at the meeting to get all the information they can and to look at all their options. You also failed to mention that you laid in wait to ambush the presentation with bad information, not related to anything we were discussing, only to discover that the person with the facts about that issue was at the meeting.
If you were to read the SB552 (attached) you will find that you are, again, incorrect in your accusation of misrepresentation. I will add however, that you have, as we all do, a right to your opinion but we don't have a right to be wrong. You too must have your facts straight, I did! Your right to disagree with the facts does not minimize the validity of the facts.
Sincerely,
Benny Crane
Executive Insurance Agency
Serving Metro Atlanta Since 1982
404.758.8156
As you can see this is an orchestrated polical power grab. The 3 musketeers have sent out their pitt bulls on an offensive. First Bennie Crane responds, now expect a posting by Reggie Tatum or Bruce Moody next. They are all motivated by aspirations of being politicians in the new city.
Mr. Crane,
I am sure that each of us have important tasks ahead which should consume our time,
however, I find it very interesting that you have such a reaction when a legitimate question
is raised. It is very evident to an increasing number of residents in all parts of south Fulton
County that you are part of a cabal intent on stopping any city from annexing areas
which are permissible under current laws. We all know that you and several others have
political ambitions of becoming mayor or a councilperson if the proposed City of South
Fulton is approved by voters next year. I support your right to run for any political office
of your choice. In the meantime, stop pimping the issue of annexation and let the process
run its course. It may be that 100 percent of unincorporated south Fulton County remains
intact, which is what you and your political operatives are working hard to achieve. It may
also be that only 20 percent of unincorporated south Fulton Count remain for the basis for
the proposed City of South Fulton County. Be honest and accept the will of the voters, and
abandon this nonsense of attacking each and every city or community group who dares to
even mention the word annexation.
Dan Young danpyoung@bellsouth.net
Based on what I heard at the meeting, overall improvements for the schools will take at least 15 years. They are in year five I believe. I don't see a short turn around anyway you cut it. The parents you are depending upon to improve Bunche and Therrell could not turn around Camp Creek Middle School, so we fought to get Sandtown. I can't see any of them placing their children in Bunche after attending Sandtown. That would be a step back and an uphill fight in a battle that was won three to four years ago.
I can apprecitate your enthusiasm and can do spirit but, the reality is the Atlanta Board of Education is different from Fulton County. They are dealing with a different set of issues altogether. The Atlanta system has a free or reduced lunch population in the 70+% range. That's huge! That means nearly all the resources are being used to bring along those children and those that can make it on their own are given less of the resources so, the turn around plan would hit a snag.
You see several years back I coached an all girls U12 soccer team at Sandtown. Nearly all of the ladies attended Camp Creek Middle School and were part of the Talented and Gifted Program. I was told on a number of ocassions that the TAG kids didn't take classes or mix with what was termed the "General Population" of the school. I thought it was incredible, at first I was shocked, later I understood. I say that to bring to your attention as you may remember from their presentation, Atlanta doesn't have a TAG type program of any kind.
Ms. White at this point I have no interest in supporting SPLOST III for Fulton County, simply because this board has continuously worked against the best interest of S Fulton students when it comes to resources.
On otherhand, I don't support APS taking over three of the top schools in S Fulton. Unfortunately, I don't have a say in that decision since I sold my home in Sandtown.
Depending upon what happens this process could take a number of years. I hope it doesn't happen but, I can't do a thing about it.
S. White - What do you think we can do about the situation Fulton Schools has placed South Fulton in?
It seems to me everyone on both sides (annexation and incorporation)have grudges that have led to their decisions. In good conscience I could never say that I want to be a part of the City of Atlanta or APS. If Sandtown is annexed I can promise there will be a lawsuit on the disposition of Sandtown, Randolph and Westlake. By turning those schools over to APS, FCSS will be forced to build three new schools in SF to ease the overcrowding that it would cause. Beside if APS had to buy the schools they couldn't!!!
I was told today that Sandtown Park isn't getting any repairs, upgrades or extra maintenance because "it's going to belong to Atlanta". What does that tell you? FCSS is saying the same. Why would anyone in their right mind build a new school for and area when you know that school is going to be replaced?
Demands met? Nothing is going to change for a while under Atlanta. Don't forget Atlanta has other priorities in place that will trump Sandtown everytime. Be careful what you wish for.
Atlanta's growth is in condos in Midtown. That means more people without kids and when they decide to have them they will move out of Atlanta to Cobb where the schools are overwhelmingly white. APS is a disappointment much like Washington DC. Black educators should be able to educate black children.
Somehow in all the gabbing that's taking place on both sides remaining unincorporated is still the best option. Sure taxes will go up. They are going up under Atlanta and a proposed new city. In addition, people are being misled to believe Fulton County will disappear if all the cities are incorporated. Fire, Police, Parks and Developmental Services will go away if there isn't any unincorporated areas. Under state law Fulton County will have to provide those services to an unincorporated South Fulton when the referendum fails.
The other part is FC will continue to provide services to Fulton Industrial since it's not allowed to annexed into a city.
The person who made the comment to me doesn't have to say anything on record. I believe them and that's good enough. Sandtown gym has received little repairs going back almost fifteen years, a coat of paint here and a new floor there. The gym has been falling apart long before now. There have never been enough funds to keep making the repairs. If the folks that use it would have complained and raised the roof like we did to get the soccer field then it would have become a priority.
Needs for a community are met one of two ways - the stakeholders must make there needs known or the governing authority take action on behalf of the community. If the stakeholders sit and wait for the governing authority to take action everytime nothing will get done.
Suing Fulton County to stop the sell or disposition of school property has nothing to do with unitary status. With or without the Sandtown Community, Westlake and SMS are needed by the rest of South Fulton and litigation is viable and doable. Why would I or any parent allow such transaction to take place without a fight? I'm more than ready to to write checks and raise funds for such an action. That means the FCSS has to replace those schools when its doesn't have the funds. That is ridiculous. Overcrowding at the remaining schools would be unreal.
Harvey change takes place at the polls and that means electing a democratic governor and lt. governor to hold sway over the republican led legislature. Nothing passes if the democratic governor doesn't sign it (they don't have the numbers to override a veto). Thus legislation in our favors get a hearing. Giving up because your party isn't in power is not what the republican have done over the last 100+ years. They have stayed with the fight and eventually won.
I won't give up on keeping Sandtown Middle and Westlake Fulton County Schools!!!!
Ms. White thank you for your response. I will send an email to Superintendent Wilson. I don't think annexation will look too good to those with children in public school if Sandtown residents knew their children are likely to attend Fickett, Bunche and Therrell because the Fulton County Schools are remaining with Fulton County because of need.
James,
So we must wait for a Democratic Governor to save us, or wait for reapportionment or the Fulton School Board to suddenly have commpassion on South Fulton. By then most of our children won't be in Fulton Schools.
HELLO!!!! We got it stuck to us in South Fulton schools before Sonny Perdue was elected. If you guys think our salvation rests with Mark Taylor being elected, you have really succumed to plantation mentality.
Everyone wants a warm and fuzzy about annexation as if there is any measure of certainty with a new city.
If folks like Bennie Crane want a "chocolate city" for the sake of it being black - don't forget that viability is important too.
I don't care what color a city is, I just don't want to be broke like Lithonia and unable to even insure the police cars.
If you really want to wait a year to vote turn over South Fulton to Mayor Bill Edwards or Mayor Roger Bruce and Councilman Reggie Tatum, heaven help us.
Re-read my post. I didn't write anything about Mark Taylor saving anyone. I said voting for a democratic governor and lt. governor will help hold sway over the republicans in the house and state senate. I didn't write anything about the FCSS coming to their senses. I advocated that FCSS shouldn't give, sale, loan or rent any of the Sandtown schools to Atlanta. What's being proposed for Sandtown plays right into their plan not to build any schools in SF. Without the Sandtown students there is no need to push for more new schools. Overcrowding could be taken care of with re-districting of all the schools in SF.
It's obvious you are too emotional in your decision making. Because you are mad with this person or that you can't find it within yourself to see the forest because of the trees. Stop with the emotional attacks. If someone doesn't agree with your point they haven't succumed to a "plantation mentality". They just have a different opinion.
I prefer to take a visionary approach to my decision making. Meaning I don't base my decisions on what's in front of me. I rather take a look at the whole problem and the try to see what effects it have down the road.
I'm certain if folks thought for one minute their children could wind up in Therrell, Bunche or Fickett they wouldn't sign onto any annexation plan including Atlanta. Are you having that conversation with people? If not, then you are doing exactly what you have accused other of doing. Not telling the whole story!!
I for one would much rather be LEFT THE HELL ALONE!!!! Atlanta can't do anything for me and I have a year to get the answers that would make me vote in the affirmative for a new city. At this point, I'm voting NO on a new city because I haven't seen any numbers or a plan that shows it will work.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on the issues.
James,
So your "VISION" for solving the school issue is to DO NOTHING (stay unincorporated) and wait for a democratic to win the 2010 guebenetorial race, the 2014 race....
Do you know what happenes if the cityhood referrendum fails?
First off, If you are going to continue to be anonymous and can't login give your name since you are using mine. I have an idea who you are but I won't say.
My vision has to do with keeping my kids in "neighborhood" schools. Staying unincorporated means my taxes will certainly rise and I don't mind that. The vision also includes working to keep the schools from being "cherry picked" and hijacked by you and your group. My tax dollars help pay for them and I have the same rights to them as you. Besides you haven't answered why you telling folks their kids my wind up at Therrell, Bunche or Fickett. I know. They would not look so favorable on annexation.
Fulton County already have the "services" you and your group are touting. If you want to go to Atlanta why not move to Preston Lakes?
You should be concerned with who is governor. The republican otherwise will move forward in their quest to divide this county and it's you and I who will pay for it in the end. Whether you're in Atlanta or SF Grady and MARTA weighs heavily into the taxes you pay at a tune of some $280 millon a year!!!
Can you imagine two different groups on a boat rowing in different directions? It's sad that things have come to this.
You wrote >What do you think about these questions?
1) If the referendum for incorporation fails isn't it likely that the surrounding cities will resume whatever annexation has not taken place by October 31?
2) As East Point, College Part, Union City and Palmetto take bites out of unincorporated South Fulton, do you think it is likely that there will be enough left for a City of South Fulton to be viable?
3) With the annexation in question number 2, is there enough left for the SSD to be viable in light of the Supreme Court's affirmation of the Schaefer amendment?
***
1) That's funny because I've heard one member of your steering committee say and write the SF Concerned Citizens group was spreading lies on that point and it was not going to happen. What is the truth? The entire annexation push by municipalities is about money, not services. Atlanta is the only one that opened the door to give an option.
Whether the other municipalities press for annexation I don't know. If you believe this will happen why are you in such a hurry? I don't think you believe it.
2) That's is unknown for I've written and said I'm NOT supporting a city because the numbers and plans aren't there at this time. That remains my position.
3) The State Supreme Court decision to affirm Schaefer doesn't change the the fact that the county would have to provide some services. That could mean contracting with the local municipalities for those services. It's cost would be lower than trying to maintain a staff and fleet, thus making it a feasible option.
As for schools, precedents can be broken. In each of the cases you cited it was not an issue of whether those schools were needed to maintain a marginal student teacher ratio for the remainder of FCSD in South Fulton County. Besides I'm not sure why APS would want to buy three schools when they are dispositioning themselves of eight and nearly a dozen other properties.
Negotiations are an important factor, meaning APS will have to come up with millions of dollars to buy those properties. In addition, you are putting your faith in an unknown school board that is going say they want to spend X amount for three more schools they will have to maintain with staff when they have schools close by. Is the tax revenue in Sandtown alone sufficient to maintain three additional schools for APS? I don't know. Not to mention the rebuilding of Westlake High School. Are they willing to spend their entire reserve fund on Sandtown? I don't know, that a question you probably should get answered. Besides I would suspect that other parents in the APS district would oppose such a move when they have more pressing needs.
Keeping schools that are needed has nothing what so ever to do with the consent decree. This isn't about fairness or segregation it's about common sense. Filing a suit to keep schools that are needed is a viable option. Negotiations will take place and as I would hope you will attempt to make your point known as will I.
I guess you are not telling parents it's a possibility that their children could end up attending Therrell, Bunche and Fickett if they choose annexation.
Whether somebody is taking their land to Palmetto means nothing to me. That's something CHC will have to deal with.
By the way did Sandtown Community Association ever meet with the SFCC group?
Is Bill Edwards going to be re-elected? I have heard that the great city of Union City has promised developers no restraints. No buffers, no set backs, nothing to impede them. Supposedly that is why we see page after page of zoning/annexation changes. Isn't it funny how Bill Edwards "got religion" around primary time?
Bill Edwards had no Republican opposition, so by winning the Democratic primary he has been re-elected to another term of office.
Please identify the state code that you cited. As far as questioning state law. Over the last two years state laws been changed to upset "precedent". Therefore, state laws are very fluid.
Somehow through all the rhetoric about an elected official attending a meeting the fact that Mayor Franklin attended and invited Reunion Place to join the city was left out. Talking about having an agenda.
Harvey according to the AJC the Mayor came to the meeting the other night to invite those in attendance to join Atlanta and she spoke of what they had to offer. How different is that from Roger Bruce showing up and telling folks to get all the facts and they should not be in such a hurry?
I can't speak for Roger but, as an elected official his stance appears to be opposite of that of the Mayor's. Therefore, he should have the same chance to speak to his constituents. If those who elected him thinks he is being disingenuous then they should kick him out of office.
The split of FC will be decided in November whether folks believe it or not. A democratic governor could veto such a move but, I doubt one will get elected based on what I'm reading since most contributors to this blog appear to be closet republicans.
Don't jump too soon. As you are annexed into Atlanta keep an eye on your new neighbors just north of 17th Street - Buckhead. They are quietly hoping for a new county to be formed so they can asked to be deannexed into the new county taking a vast majority of the City of Atlanta's tax base. They have the same issues with Atlanta as north Fulton has with Fulton County too many democrats in charge. Black democrats at that!!!
At that point Atlanta and the remainder of Fulton County is a sinking ship. I see the scenario playing itself out all over again but, this time it's Atlanta. The tax base in Atlanta without Buckhead can't sustain itself much like Fulton County without Sandy Springs. Unfortunately the mayor won't be able to stop this because Sam Massell, the former mayor of Atlanta and current unofficial mayor of Buckhead has already lined up his troops.
FYI Otis blog posting are deleted by the author only. As moderator I don't believe in censorship. Therefore, I don't remove postings.
Also get the facts - In north Fulton a small number of people turned out to vote for the incorporations. 14k went to the polls during the last election in SF just in District 7 and 13k combined voted in Milton and JC elections. SS had only some 8900 folks show to vote on its referendums. SF and Atlanta has far more registered voters than NF.
Go to AJC.com and search on election results.
Ms. White Grady and MARTA belongs to us in the south end of the county. The folks up north want no part.
I think Bill Shipp on the "Georgia Gang" called it better than anyone. Yesterday, he said the push for cityhood and another county in north Fulton is "racist". I was surprised to hear that and Dick Williams didn't try to censor him although they went to a break right after his comment.
My problem is we will have to carry the weight of Grady Hospital and MARTA when the vast majority of metro Atlanta and Georgia for that matter don't care for either. It doesn't stop them from using them when it's convenient. Grady has the top burn and triage unit in the SE USA. MARTA is hampered by the fear that it would transport crime to other areas of the metro area but that hasn't stop them from starting their own systems. Sounds like bigots having their way.
City is giving annexation supporters more time to gather signatures. Will it be enough? Time will tell. The new deadline has not been announced but the states mandated deadline remains October 31.
For those of you in Walden Park that aren't ready to build your own city of South Fulton, a reliable source says Atlanta is eyeing annexation of Walden Park via Stubbs Road.
Roger Bruce,
Let’s see if we can follow your logic to wait. Instead of choosing to annex into the city of Atlanta now, we should wait until June of 2007, vote against the referendum to for a new city, hope the referendum fails and hope Atlanta would like to annex us then. I am sorry why are we waiting again?
My property is on West Stubbs and I think your source is WRONG. It would take an enormous land grab to get that far.
You are so right about Roger!!!! Our problem repeatedly is Roger Bruce and Bill Edwards. We as a people give a lot of respect to politicians. Roger and Bill obtain their authority by virtue of their political office and the fact that they can send their lapdogs out to do the work in most instances.
Whatever the outcome on annexation efforts, we all benefit because in desperation as they pull out all of the stops seeking a new city of South Fulton, their manipulation and betrayal of the community is rapidly becoming common knowledge.
If they were smart instead of fighting those who legally are seeking annexation, they would let them go. These same forces if they are not able to leave through annexation, will have seven months to expose the financial lunacy of incorporating and defeat the referendum.
Sandy Springs is struggling, and the latest budget numbers from Fulton say Johns Creek will struggle even more and Milton will be a disaster. Then here we are with no vision or common sense copying the man while he is too stupid to realize he is jumping off of the cliff.
The result for us with even less commercial would be devastating. Let’s wake up and realize that we continued to be played by OUR politicians that we unconditionally trust because they look like us. Choose Atlanta now BEFORE it hits the fan in South Fulton.
I want to know why an elected representative, Roger Bruce, is sending broadcast voice mails to house urging citizens not to sign a petition when it is an individual family decision. This is in addittion to attending a homeowner meeting only to spread misleading fear, uncertainty, and doubt to homeowners over the decision making process. It would have been nice if he where providing objective pro's and con's for both instead of apparently taking a side and pushing that agenda!
James and S. White: Since both of you have a good handle on the issues underlying the annexation process, what are your thoughts on the recent submission from Union City to Fulton County of the proposal to annex properties along the South Fulton Parkway, properties which were not contiguous and created islands, neither of which is allowed by State Law. Is that the type of gerrymandered map we can expect from the Sandtown area along Camp Creek Parkway!
Thanks, SWFulton
No organization can police and maintain total control over the actions of its members. As an example Reggie Tatum has resorted in desperation to disrupt meetings about annexation and verbally assault and run off folks wanting to sign annexation petitions.
He wants to be on the City Council of the new city and has abandoned many of his associates in Sandtown in his puruit of the incorporation effort. Last year he represented himself to the South Fulton Concerned Citizens as a Sandtown representative. To the degree that he represented himself to them as a resident that is true, however he does not represent the association and he is not on the leadership team.
I don't think anyone is calling the South Fulton Conerned Citizens on the carpet because of his actions because if he can disrupt and intimidate folks from signing to be annexed them they all get their way.
There is another group called the "SW Fulton Concerned Citizens" who authored one flyer in South Fulton. For the record the South Fulton Concerned Citizens who have a website with that name have not registered the name as an entity. Any citizen that is concerned in South Fulton can represent themself as such - provided they do not contend they are representing the group with that name.
Alls fair in love and war, and here we see politics is even worse. Look at the dynamic duo of Roger Bruce and Bill Edwards. The only reason Bruce and Edwards want a new city is for a new political hussle.
In response to Harvey, it is not "the choice others make" but the tactics that are being employed to influence the choices to be made and the misinformation that is being propogated and broadcast as fact. And to suggest, as someone has in a previous statement that the South Fulton Concerned Citizens web address has to be "registered" to protect it and provide legitimacy is hogwash. We all know who the South Fulton Concerned Citizens are and anyone trying to cover the name in an effort to lend credibility to their efforts is suspect at the least and fraudulant at best.
SWFulton
Chattahoochee Hill Country will not be a city:
One Southside city idea loses steam
By D.L. BENNETT
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 08/11/06
The idea of forming Chattahoochee Hill Country, a new city in south Fulton County that set out to preserve more than 30,000 acres of rolling countryside, is all but dead, a handful of residents and local leaders decided Thursday night.
A straw ballot among 150 residents, community activists and landowners found support for the proposed city, which had been discussed for more than two years, had eroded.
Now, the community will try to be annexed into the neighboring city of Palmetto.
"I don't see that we have a choice but to go to Palmetto," said Don Hayes, who lives in Chattahoochee Hill Country. "To form a new city, there are so many obstacles to overcome."
For the 2,700 residents of Chattahoochee Hill Country, incorporation would have allowed the community to oversee development in a large, undeveloped portion of the county and control the very issues that threaten to change their rural landscape.
The new city, too, would have had a say in other matters, such as shaping police and fire services.
But in the end, those behind the Chattahoochee Hill Country movement worried about generating enough revenue to sustain a viable city, particularly after the borders of the proposed city had changed.
Those changes left Chattahoochee Hill Country with less developed land on which to collect taxes.
Thursday night's development does not affect another incorporation effort. Next June, residents will decide whether to form another new city called South Fulton.
But for the community of Chattahoochee Hill Country, forming their own city no longer seems be an option. So after Thursday night's vote, leaders handed out petitions so they could begin gathering signatures to be annexed by Palmetto.
That might not be easy.
They have until Aug. 24 to gather the signatures of 60 percent of the community's registered voters.
They will also need the signatures of people who, together, own about 18,000 acres — or 60 percent — of property in the community.
If the annexation attempt were to fail, it's unclear what would happen next.
With zoning issues decided by someone else, for example, how will Chattahoochee Hill Country preserve its undeveloped land?
What about the referendum that's supposed to be on the ballot next June?
After convincing the state Legislature to put the issue before voters, will the community now ask legislators to rescind the measure? Or, will the question move forward, with voters having the ultimate say?
Steve Nygren, who's developing a mixed-use community in the area known as Serenbe, was among those who had been pushing for cityhood.
For Chattahoochee Hill Country, which sits in the southwest corner of Fulton County, on the border of Douglas and Coweta counties, the timing couldn't have been better.
After 30 years of trying to form their own city, residents in the community of Sandy Springs, in the northern part of the county, finally incorporated last year, thanks to a shift in power in the Legislature.
Last month, residents in two more north Fulton communities — Johns Creek and Milton — decided to form their own cities, too.
For years, residents in unincorporated areas of the county had complained that they were being ignored by county government. Now, an incorporation effort was sweeping across Fulton County.
In Chattahoochee Hill Country, Nygren and others envisioned a city made up of three, smaller villages nestled among tens of thousands of acres of rolling countryside that would never be developed.
But the idea suffered its first setback earlier this year, when lawmakers drew the boundaries for the planned cities of Chattahoochee Hill Country and South Fulton.
They lumped into the proposed city of South Fulton one of the three areas that Chattahoochee Hill Country had hoped to develop.
Then, the owner of a 1,000-acre parcel that would have made up the second of the three villages decided to be annexed by Palmetto.
That left one concentrated area of development in Chattahoochee Hill Country — Serenbe, which is made up of a handful of homes and businesses, though it's still being built.
For now, the critical issue, Nygren said, is preserving the concept and brand of Chattahoochee Hill Country — even if the city is never formed.
"What's the city in Napa Valley?" Nygren asked. "Nobody knows. But everybody knows Napa Valley."
Gregory Rusch, a councilman in Palmetto, told those gathered at Thursday night's meeting that if Chattahoochee Hill Country wanted to become part of Palmetto, they were more than welcome.
And he promised that Palmetto, which has only 3,500 residents, would work to maintain Chattahoochee Hill Country's rural charm.
"You can keep your identity and still be part of Palmetto," Rusch said. "It would be like Buckhead and Atlanta."
They should have never sought to become a city any way. They had only 3000 folks and had limited the development. The tax base is too small. That didn't make sense.
CHC wasn't going to happen anyway. I don't think the numbers were there. Now Palmetto will suddenly become one of the largest cities in the state (geographically). For those that turned over their development rights and the work that went into creating the area is now up in the air, those are the folks I feel sorry for.
More than 14% will take part in the SF referendum. I think closer to 50% will go to the polls. Why? There are far more who have an interest in becoming a city than not. If by chance the city hood effort fails with all the annexations it creates a smaller unincorporated entity that is easier to patrol for police and fire.
If by chance a city if formed it would make more sense for the new city to contract for fire and police with FC or whom ever for at least five to seven years.
Keeping current Fulton County Schools remains my top priority because, both my sons are in portable classrooms at Renaissance and Sandtown. The situation would be worse for if the schools were realigned.
"Information is key to making the best choices"
The Federal government recently announced that funding for future highway expansion will have to come from local dollars. Gasoline prices are expected to continue to climb well above the $3.10/ gallon threshold by the end of this year. Who can provide adequate municipal services continues to influence the city incorporation efforts in North Fulton and annexation efforts in South Fulton. Whether you agree or disagree, one thing is clear, the metro-Atlanta region will not be the same. As many residents choose to take a wait and see attitude, their ability to influence the final outcome moves further and further away. There is enough blame to go around; the sad part is few of our leaders have publicly accepted any responsibility. We applaud those leaders who have sought rational and practical solutions and continue to explore answers to residents' concerns.
The decision for Sandtown is not an easy one. Partly because of many unknowns. For many who have decided to be annexed, it was based on a gut feeling and more of what we see in the leadership from Atlanta. The fact that recently it was announced that the city of Atlanta had more than 9,000 people move back into the city, ahead of Fulton, Dekalb and Cobb Counties, is encouraging. Apparently, there are others beside the residents of Sandtown, who see the same optimism, hope and fiscal restraint needed to sustain services. For other residents, it was the fact that up until June, 2006, only one option was discussed and information from our political leadership did not address other options such as remaining unincorporated or annexation.
What we can tell you is that the push to say no to annexation is coming basically from the South Fulton Concerned Citizens. We encourage everyone to visit their website and understand their mission. Their focus has been to solely prevent any movement on annexation until the referendum vote on June 7, 2007. And we agree that is an option. The fine print that is missing from their message, is that if the referendum prevails, your personal communities' choice has been snatched away by others who you have little in common with, other than living in unincorporated South Fulton County.
Education was the initial issue driving the push along with the need for parks, recreation facilities, and municipal services, such as fire, police and water. Even the Fulton County School Board is considering delaying the rebuild of Westlake for the third time in six years. There are some who strongly believed that this time construction on a new Westlake would be built, but for the annexation effort by the Sandtown Community Association. If you are familiar with our organization's work, accomplishments and purpose, you will see that no one beyond our organization and the Westlake PTSA has worked harder for the last 6 1/2 years to get the school rebuilt. Once again, it is the SFCC and our political leaders who want to discredit our efforts and make us the scapegoat for an issue that clearly could have been resolved, if the slogan, Fulton County, where children come first really had a significance to children in South Fulton.
I want to caution those who have sat on the sidelines and continue to not get involved. A people that does not know their history or acts as if they have forgotten it, are bound to repeat it. And in these times, where information is critical to making the best choices, if you rely on others to lead you to your decisions, then you might end up repeating history!
John A. Davis
President Sandtown Community Association
www.sandtown.org
From theCitizen.com:
Palmetto annexes 900 acres
Mon, 08/14/2006 - 9:47am
By: Ben Nelms
Palmetto moved ahead Monday with annexation plans for 900 acres as the City Council voted nearly unanimously to rezone and annex land on the northwest and southwest sides of the city. Unlike the atmosphere at the Planning Commission the week before, most of the 80 area residents attending objected to the annexations, though their stated objections were far fewer in number.
The first of the rezoning and annexations in the Chattahoochee Hills area brought the Hallman property into the city, followed by the Bowen tract and tracts owned by Vanguard North, LLC. In total, those tracts total approximately 675 acres. Property owners were represented by Eldon Basham, who said the owners had requested to come into the city, adding that they requested no change in the county’s agricultural zoning. Council members also approved rezoning and annexation of two tracts owned by Vanguard South, LLC and totaling approximately 225 acres. The tracts are situated on the city’s southwest side.
The sole vote opposing the annexations was council member John Miller. No stranger to insisting that Palmetto building codes should be updated and strengthened, Miller said he cast opposing votes over concerns that future residential construction on the annexed property would be approved at higher densities than currently allowed.
“We’ve just got to be careful about bringing things in and not making the mistakes of the past,” he said. “I believe the current Chattahoochee Hills overlay will go away and higher density will follow.”
Skeptical of Vanguard’s intentions, some residents questioned the company’s motive for requesting the annexation after only months ago expressing interest in being a part of the Chattahoochee Hills area. Responding to questions about their intention, Basham said only that his clients wanted to be a part of Palmetto.
Also at the meeting, builder Dwight Parks was turned down on a proposal to rezone property on Beckman Street for construction of a condo/townhome development. The proposal was denied on a unanimous vote based on the project being inconsistent with the city’s Land Use Plan and Comprehensive Plan, council members said.
Some Atlanta City Council folks are apprehensive about going forth with the annexation. They have not been given enough information by the Mayor's Office and there are concerned about the true value of taking in the area. What will it cost? In addition, the city is not providing enough fire coverage and police coverage for Princeton Lakes. That comes from the mouth of a city councilman. -- more later
Go to South Fulton Living to read some of the details from the City Council Finance/Executive Cmte meeting regarding annexation.
Both of you are making inferences regarding the council. Whether they are "jealous" is irrevalent and inmaterial to the facts. The facts are what they are. They were not kept in the loop. Remember these are the folks who couldn't decide in a timely fashion if panhandling would affect tourism. It does.
Pridgeon should have apologized but, he didn't. Why? I don't know. I don't think I should make inferences as to what he was thinking.
Folks should listen and watch the tape for themselves to come to their own conclusions. My synopsis was written to provide the information.
Read what I wrote again and listen to the tape. I captureed what was being said very well. Otis, I have a degree in broadcast journalism and have worked in the business a number of years. I know how to write an unbiased piece. The purpose of the synopsis was to capture different points as well as publicize the fact that the city council committee felt it was not part of the process.
When I write propaganda you will know.
August 19, 2006
Reggie Tatum,
You, Roger Bruce, and Bennie Crane do not seem to understand what is really happening in unincorporated south Fulton County. I watched Roger Bruce and Bennie Crane paint this rosy picture of how this proposed City of South Fulton County will have the necessary finances to accomplish so many great things. However, none of you will admit that the boundary of the proposed city will reduced by the end of August 2006. You and I know very well that Union City annexed an significant part of unincorporated south Fulton County.
Other cities are in the process of annexing, which will further reduce the original boundary of the proposed city by at least 40 percent. Knowing that the boundary will be reduced, Benny Crane continues to peddle his phony numbers that everything will be just fine, irrespective of the fact that the financial and population base of the proposed city will be changed.
On the school issue. For some time you, Roger Bruce, Bennie Crane, Mark James, and others have tried to scare parents and others by telling them lies that their children will be bussed to Atlanta, that Atlanta does not have the capability to educate students, etc. Each of you have been exhorting residents to remove their names from the petition and Mark James even has the so-called forms for that purpose. Let me make one thing very clear, especially to Roger Bruce and Mark James about this issue. I have already discussed this issue with several attorneys and they are waiting for the right moment and will use a variety of lawsuits which I will personally file against the three of you to make sure that your ghetto tactics do not prevail.
I believe that each of you actually think that rights of others can be trampled on at your discretion. That will not happen.
Finally, I hope that each of you are wise enough never to confront me face-to-face with your tactics. If that happens, my response to such behavior will be to treat it as a threat and use the necessary means to eliminate the threat
Dan Young
danpyoung@bellsouth.net
SAY NO TO UNION CITY ANNEXATION!!!!!
I AGREE WITH YOU MR. DAN YOUNG, YOU ARE A GENTLE, KIND AND INTELLIGENT MAN. I MET YOU, FORMALLY, ONLY ONCE, BUT YOU WERE VERY MEMORABLE AND HELPFUL. I COMMEND AND RESPECT YOUR TENACITY AND PASSION. MAY GOD FOREVER KEEP YOU AND CONTINUE TO BESTOW BLESSINGS ABUNDANTLY UPON YOU, YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS. MUCH LOVE GOES OUT TO YOU BROTHER! KEEP THE FAITH......THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH, THESE PEOPLE KNOW IT.
Chattahoochee Hills wants to join Palmetto
Mon, 08/28/2006 - 12:50pm
By: Ben Nelms
A group of Chattahoochee Hills residents did what seemed at the outset to be unlikely, even improbable. They decided two weeks ago to forego the plans of having their own city and to link up instead with the City of Palmetto. In that two weeks, organizers said they obtained the signed petitions of more than 60 percent of the registered voters and 60 percent of property owners, the requirement for obtaining annexation. City officials are currently validating the petitions so that the mayor and city council can take up the issue.
Though the 40,000-acre Chatt Hills area dwarfs Palmetto, residents believe their fate is better served as citizens of Palmetto due to recent changes in development plans for one of the areas three planned villages when Vanguard Properties sought and received annexation into Palmetto. Area residents believe a second village was all but lost after the General Assembly earlier this year included the area for the location of another village in the City of South Fulton. Though those 7,900 acres might be returned to Chatt Hills once the South Fulton is formed next year, Hill country residents maintain that such a move has no guarantee attached.
“People in our community know growth is inevitable, they know it’s coming, they don’t want to stop it. But they do want a voice at the table. They want to manage it, to preserve it,” Chatt Hills resident Rodney Peek explained. “With losing one or two of the villages we would be fractured. With one village being in Palmetto and one being in the City of South Fulton it would be very difficult to keep the original Chatt Hills plan.”
So with what they see as the handwriting on the wall, Chatt Hills residents two weeks ago began the rush to amass the blessing of the required 60 percent of registered voters and 60 percent of land owners needed to be annexed into Palmetto. And by Thursday’s deadline they succeeded, with more than 100 Hill Country residents showing up at city hall with what they said were the required number of petitions to gain entry into the city.
“I am amazed at how our community has been united together for this cause. In most communities you know your neighbors but so many times everybody is going in different directions. But with this, everyone saw the benefit and the whole community got organized and came together. I’ve never seen anything like this in my lifetime, Peek said. “It happened in two weeks. Neighbors came in and recruited helpers. They were people I didn’t even know. They just wanted to help. Younger people and older people. One older lady said she would never have thought about going into Palmetto. We talked about the pros and cons and she said she wanted to help.”
Long-time Hill Country resident Molcie Trimble did not initially support the move to join Palmetto, yet is in favor of the attempt to become one of its newest citizens. Joining many of her fellow Chatt Hills neighbors Thursday at city hall, she expressed complete support for the move to bring the Hill Country into the city limits.
“I didn't vote for it but I worked my heart out in the last 12 days. We worked day and night and I’m happy with the outcome and I support it,” Trimble said. “This will be good for the community and for Palmetto.
For Peek and others in the Hill Country, their work is done. Now they wait to hear the outcome of their efforts.
“I can’t believe what has happened. It’s exciting,” Peek said smiling. “I hope the City of Palmetto will look at what’s happening, look at us as an asset, as something that doesn’t want to take away, but as something as wants to add to the city. We just want them to preserve the overlay we’ve worked so hard for. It can be an asset to the whole community.”
The petitions are currently being validated by city staff. If found in order, the annexation request will be taken up in coming weeks by the mayor and city council.
http://www.thecitizen.com/node/9691
Fairburn plans more annexation
Mon, 08/28/2006 - 12:47pm
By: Ben Nelms
It was not exactly the average meeting of the South Fulton Community Improvement District, at least from Fairburn’s perspective. The Aug. 17 meeting brought the announcement that Fairburn is annexing large parcels owned by CSX Railroad along Roosevelt Highway and Hodges and Excel properties along Oakley Industrial Boulevard.
Describing the city’s development goals for the near term future, Fairburn City Administrator Jim Williams said the city wanted to have a vibrant industrial park of at least 2,000 acres, along with approximately a million square feet of retail and commercial space and to redevelop the downtown area. One of those goals was met last year with the announcement of a major commercial venture on the east side of Ga. Highway 74 between Milam Road and Oakley Industrial. Williams used the CID setting to announce the city’s success in another goal area.
“I want to very proudly announce today is that we took a giant step forward in our goals and objectives this past week with the application for annexation of 468 acres of CSX property into the city and 556 acres of Hodges and Excel property into the city,” said Williams. “Those applications are in, we checked all the surveys and we’re notifying Fulton County this afternoon.”
Williams said the inclusion of those properties into the city will reap future benefits for both Fairburn and the Community Improvement District.
“We’re not doing very many annexations. We’ve had approximately 30 individual requests from people wanting to bring residential units in. Many of those we’re not going to be able to deal with. We wanted to focus on those properties that would significantly add to our goals for economic development. So (CSX and Hodges/Excel) was a major step forward for us,” Williams said. “All this is a prelude to the fact that Fairburn wants to be a very, very significant partner in the CID process. These properties over the years are going to generate tax revenues that will coming to Fairburn. But what I want you to understand is that those tax revenues are going to be focused in the area of the services and facilities the CID needs to expand.”
Also at the meeting, developer Jay Knight announced a commitment to construct a hotel on a portion of the 27 acres owned by Knight Group along the east side of of Hwy. 74 and immediately south of I-85. The remainder of the property will likely be portioned out to smaller retail developments rather than attempting to situate big box retailers on the site. Such a move should be more compatible with the 1,000 townhome Renaissance Southpark development currently under construction.
http://www.thecitizen.com/node/9688
PRESS RELEASE
From Sandtown and West Cascade Community Petitioners for Annexation
The Sandtown and West Cascade community petitioners have requested that the processing of their application for annexation to the city of Atlanta be suspended at this time. This request is made as a result of the 1/8th rule for the 60% method for annexation that prevents us from including all the citizens in the petition for annexation that would like to be included. Another factor which slowed the process of Sandtown and West Cascade meeting the legal requirements was the fervent opposition from our own political representatives working to deny us the right to choose annexation.
Despite many efforts by our own representatives, including their participation in public forums on how to remove names from annexation petitions, we had an overwhelming response from our community to join our petitions for annexation to Atlanta. It is unfortunate that our legislators, specifically Mr. Roger Bruce, did not think to offer or allow for additional choices for all citizens of West Cascade and Sandtown. He helped pass legislation that would force us to participate in a vote for a new city with other parts of unincorporated South Fulton county that have interests vastly different than ours.
We do not want to be the financial base for starting a new city from scratch that has no real commercial or industrial tax base, and that would mostly benefit developers and large land owners not in our community as well as would-be elected officials for this new city.
Our choice is to join the established and renewed city of Atlanta. Our community is comprised of many professionals and working class people such as doctors, lawyers, teachers, pastors, entrepreneurs, board members and volunteers who work for and with many public and private businesses and civic organizations in Atlanta. We already work, play and invest in Atlanta.
Hopefully, our political leaders will respond to the homeowners in these areas who have requested that we be given a choice on a referendum other than the one that has been listed on their own agenda.
We should have the right to choose rather than being forced into a preconceived direction of starting a new city from those who pretend to represent us. Hopefully, our political representatives will be sensitive to the fact that the vast majority of homeowners in our area signed petitions for joining Atlanta rather than being forced to participate in a vote for a new city with other parts of unincorporated Futon County that have vastly different interests than our own.
Sandtown and West Cascade Community Petitioners for Annexation
I wonder what the pro-city of South Fulton zealots have to say about Commissioner Bill Edwards' press release saying “I AM 100% AGAINST BECOMING THE CITY OF SOUTH FULTON!!!”.
Might they say Et tu, Brute? - (A Latin sentence meaning “Even you, Brutus?” from the play Julius Caesar, by William Shakespeare. Caesar utters these words as he is being stabbed to death, having recognized his friend Brutus among the assassins.)
FROM THE DESK OF COMMISSIONER EDWARDS
WHAT ARE YOU RUNNING FROM…AND
WHO ARE YOU RUNNING TO?
South Fulton Residents, you are a wonderful people and I appreciate you from the bottom of my heart. I say to you, thank you so very much for your support and vote of confidence on July 18, 2006 when you went to the polls. By a margin of 72%, you showed me that you still believe in me and the direction, with your continued support, that South Fulton is going and that you trust me as your leader. Your vote of confidence also let me know that together we can do anything to make South Fulton even greater than it is today. For this I want to say THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!
Now to the matter at hand. There is a wave of restlessness running throughout South Fulton County that is weighing heavily on my heart. You, the citizens of South Fulton County have worked so hard together on your communities’ hopes and dreams, through agreements and disagreements to set standards and guidelines that would make your tomorrows better for you and your children. Yet, now we are letting people with limited information and misinformation come in and destroy the bond that got us where we are today. Communities are fighting communities, neighbors are fighting neighbors, and for what? I refuse to give up the dream that you came to me with, so allow me to attempt to shed some light on the situation before us.
As citizens of Unincorporated South Fulton, the issues for decision are as follows:
1. Annexation
· Municipalities have until October 31, 2006 to submit annexation packages
· Municipalities MUST have 60% of the registered AND 60% of the land owners. The 100% method is used ONLY when you have one land owner at stake.
· Communities may opt to be annexed into a city, however, the 60/60 rule still applies
2. Form a new city
3. Remain Unincorporated South Fulton County
After reviewing data, statistics, and most importantly our finances, this is where I stand on all of these issues:
AGAINST
I AM 100% AGAINST ANNEXATION BY ANYONE!!!
I AM 100% AGAINST BECOMING THE CITY OF SOUTH FULTON!!!
SUPPORT
I AM 100% IN FAVOR OF REMAINING UNINCORPORATED!!!!
It is because of you, the citizens, that I support remaining Unincorporated. Let me tell you why this is the best option for you and me, because I live in South Fulton just like you.
· First and foremost, South Fulton’s millage rate of 5.731 is the fifth lowest in the County
· Growth for Unincorporated South Fulton County, to date, for 2006 is $962,985,016. Keep in mind, the year is not over.
· Fulton County is in the top one percent of counties adding the most housing units in 2006
· South Fulton County has an ending Fund Balance of $6,649,945
· Fulton County has the highest short-term note credit rating possible
· Fulton County’s financial health places it in the top one percent of county governments nationwide
· The three national credit rating organizations, Standard and Poor’s, Moody’s and Fitch each ranked Fulton County’s financial health among the nation’s credit rating elite
Some residents have generated petitions in favor of being annexed into the City of Atlanta. Others want to form the City of South Fulton, and because you look so good and have money in your pockets, surrounding municipalities are using devious tactics, or better yet, predatory annexation tactics to take portions of your South Fulton County.
I think it’s reprehensible that some existing municipalities are using these predatory tactics to scare our good citizens, especially seniors, into the belief that if they don’t sign the petition, they will no longer have police and fire. This is an inexcusable misrepresentation of the truth and I have alerted our legal department that we may have to take legal action to protect our citizens.
Ladies and Gentlemen, remember, the Bible says, “TOGETHER WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.” Now is the time for us to come together and show what we can do when we work together as ONE. We are ONE SOUTH FULTON. Yesterday, with a dream and a vision we got started; Today, we’re moving forward with impressive courage to persevere in the RIGHT direction; Tomorrow, we stand as a shining jewel for all to see. Now, ask yourselves,
WHAT ARE YOU RUNNING FROM?
WHO ARE YOU RUNNING TO?
Life teaches us many lasting lessons as it weaves stories that last a lifetime. I often refer to the story about when we were in school, it was prom time, in preparation we selected our date, picked up our date and went to the prom. Once we arrived, we danced with the date that we brought. In that same vein, I say to you, I am committed to ride the horse that brought us to where we are today and will stand by us as we continue to ride toward our even brighter future. Your vote showed that you believe in my leadership and the direction we are going, so I ask that you STAND WITH ME, AND I PROMISE YOU, SOUTH FULTON COUNTY WILL BE THE CROWNING JEWEL OF THE REGION.
I have attached for your reference, the financial statistics as developed by Dr. Arthur Ferdinand. Please review this material very carefully in helping you to weigh your decision. If you have further questions concerning the tax implications, please contact Dr. Ferdinand at 404-613-0114.
As always, thank you for giving us the opportunity to serve you in District 7.
Sincerely,
William “Bill” Edwards
Commissioner, District 7
404/730-8230 (Downtown Office)
770/306-3079 (South Fulton District Office)
What does everyone think about Commissioner Bill Edwards statement that "I AM 100% AGAINST BECOMING THE CITY OF SOUTH FULTON!!! "?
From:
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:32 AM
To: King, Harry
Subject: Harry --
Here's what I can tell you:
Today in North Fulton County is there any land not annexed? Or is there still any unincorporated North Fulton County?
Yes, there are still some areas of unincorporated in North Fulton. However, these areas are actively pursuing annexation alternatives. Remaining unincorporated is simply not an option.
For any area that is still unincorporated in Fulton County... is their MARTA and GRADY tax burden and less or more that existing and new cities coming on line... (Milton, Johns Creek).
The MARTA one percent sales tax is a county-wide sales tax. So anyone who makes a purchase anywhere in Fulton County pays the MARTA sales tax. It doesn’t matter if they live within a city or not. Re Grady – Grady is funded out of the County’s General Fund. ALL citizens of Fulton County – including those living within a city (existing or new) – pay the General Fund millage rate. So, there is no impact to citizens regardless of unincorporated or incorporated.
What is the likely hood of S.F. staying unincorporated and surviving?
I just received budget projects for a proposed Unincorporated South Fulton. It is not a pretty picture. Projects for 2006 are improved, but still revenues are not enough to sustain even current service levels. Revenues for 2006 are now projected to be $47.9 million (including the $12 million one-time transfer from the reserves). Expenses are coming in at $42.7 million. HOWEVER – remember, the $47.9 in revenue includes the one-time transfer of $12 million in reserve funds. So, in terms of recurring revenue, it’s $35.9. And that means with services remaining at the current reduced levels, there’s a nearly $7 million DEFICIT.
Now, I also had the finance director run projections for South Fulton for 2007 – unincorporated vs. a city. Here’s what he provided:
UNINCORPORATED: Revenues: $37.3 million Expenses: $49.2 million
AS A CITY: Revenues: $50.3 million Expenses: $51.2 million
So, why does the city have more revenue? Because a new city of South Fulton will receive about $11.5 million in Local Option Sales Revenue. The unincorporated area cannot legally get these revenues. I have no idea why the expenses were increased for the city vs. the unincorporated area. Bottom line: as a city, there are more revenues, but there will also be more overhead expenses as well. And, as you can see, revenues as a city barely cover the current pared down services.
Again, none of this is a pretty picture. I know that Comm. Edwards has now come out against a new city AND against annexing into an existing city. I do not see how the area remains unincorporated. However, a new city at the current millage rate is not all that financially sound either – based on these projections.
All of a sudden the 7 district commissioner has done a 360 and says he is only for S.F. remaining unincorporated...What is up with that?
Well, I tried to tell everyone from the beginning that he did not support the incorporations. No one believed me. He spoke out of both sides of his mouth routinely. His goal all along has been to try to find some way to keep SF unincorporated. That is the only way that he can continue to be in control. He played everyone in South Fulton in order to get himself through his contested primary. However, as he is fond of saying – “the chickens are coming home to roost now.” !!
I am predicting that within 36 months, there will be no more Unincorporated Fulton County.
I agree with you – although I do not know if the city referendums will both pass. If they do not, the county will do its best, but it will quickly prove extremely expensive and inefficient. Even if the area stays unincorporated, I believe the county will have no choice but to look to contracting for services with nearby cities. Well, if the services are going to be contracted with the cities, why keep the county as a middle man? As I have also said from the beginning, the possibility of a large, multi-year annexation plan is one that simply must be explored.
Hope all of this helps.
----------------
Today in North Fulton County is there any land not annexed? Or is there still any unincorporated North Fulton County?
For any area that is still unincorporated in Fulton County... is their MARTA and GRADY tax burden and less or more that existing and new cities coming on line... (Milton, Johns Creek).
What is the likely hood of S.F. staying unincorporated and surviving?
All of a sudden the 7 district commissioner has done a 360 and says he is only for S.F. remaining unincorporated...What is up with that?
I am predicting that within 36 months, there will be no more Unincorporated Fulton County.
Thanks.
Harry King – President, Thaxton Point HOA
An Jeanne' J. James
S. White,
What's your opinion on what the right thing to do is?
If you look closely at the numbers given to the BOC on Wednesday. There will be nearly a $1.6 million deficit for 2007 for unicorporated SF. A 1/2 mill tax increase will cover that easily. Remaining unincorporated is what makes sense to me at this time. We don't have the what it takes to re-create the wheel. Folks need to remember - the Fulton Industrial Business District will not be incorporated. The annexations that are taking place won't have any bearing on an unincorporated SF.
James did you include the onetime reduction of the reserves they took this year?
Nonreoccuring revenues we will not have next year are LOST for Sandy Springs $10,300,000 and the Quarry Sale $16,500,000. This will result in a 22% fund balance.
From the Finance Director without the onetime transfer from reserves of $12 million dollars this year, there would be a deficit of $6.3 Million dollars this year. All things equal we would need an increase of $5.2 Million in revenue to break even next year. Even with double the growth of 8%, that is only $3.8 Million of the $5.2 we need to break even. This year they only projected 4% growth.
Even with all you quoted the Finance Director said there would be a deficit of 6.2 million.
The fund balance refers to the general fund. The deficit we are concerned about is the South Fulton SSD that funds police, fire, parks et cetera. GO the the Fulton COmmissioners page on myfultoncountyga.com and wath the archive of the September 6 BOC meeting and you won't have to take my word....
Otis
What concerns me is there no park or school space for such a development. Rezonings for schools is a short term answer.
We should force developers to build large parks with baseball, softball, football and soccer fields.
Sports complexes can bring in a nice revenue stream. Of course, those folks aren't interested in building a park to absorb the overcrowding that it bound to cause.
Park Initiative
In South Fulton we have a unique problem that everyone is ignoring. With the rise in development we are neglecting the need for park space for all the children that will come along with those developments.
We have a large contingent of parents throughout South Fulton working on ensuring we have quality educational resources. That's good and should be on the front burner but, having adequate space for the children to exercise and become physically fit should be close second.
Developers should be required to pay impact fees for schools and park services. I'm fortunate enough to have children and they are involved in school activities and sports programs. The schools and park facilities are inadequate all over South Fulton.
I'm proposing that we create a volunteer non-profit organization to take this to the developers. Request them to pay $2,000 per home built. For homeowners which will surely have to pay the fee that amounts to $5.55 per month on a thirty year mortgage. What about the homes already here? We file for a referendum to tax every home with residents less than 65 years of age a $5.55 monthly fee that is passed through the county.
The money is divided among the schools and goes to building a sports complex large enough to house soccer, baseball, softball and football fields.
This park initiative is viable now while the cost of land is still relatively inexpensive and attainable. Otherwise, we should ask the county to lease the land to the organization.
- James Reese
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
Ms. White re-read the post I said this is a volunteer non-profit project. The only way Fulton County would be involved is to zone the land or get involved in the referendum if it's required.
On Becoming the City of Milton
AKA "The Road to Milton is Paved With Suck"
Before we get started, I should point out that I stole this post's title from Bill Harris's hilarious post "The Road to Shreveport Is Paved With Suck", an article about his family's annual trip to Louisiana to visit his wife's family. At the time, it was hosted on GoneGold.com, but Gone Gold has since evaporated. I tried looking at Bill's personal site, Dubious Quality, but alas, I could not find it. Perhaps if we all email him, he'll post it again. On that note, happy birthday to Bill's son Eli, who has just completed an upgrade to version 5.0.
One tick after midnight on December 1st, 2006 the missus and I will no longer live in unincorporated Fulton County, GA and will instead live in the newly formed town of Milton. In the July 18th elections, in which a) about 4 people showed up and b) 3 of them did not vote for Ralph Reed, a referendum was voted on to further carve up Fulton County and make part of it, the part we live in, the city of Milton. Linda is not happy.
Allow me to explain. When we first started researching where in Atlanta we wanted to live, she came upon the glorious town of Alpharetta. The houses looked so nice, there were parks and shopping places, and a general rosy sense of goodwill and peace on Earth. When we visited the area, to determine if we wanted to live here, we found that the streets of Alpharetta were paved with gold, that bluebirds sang and rainbows cascaded from on high. OK, that's an exaggeration, but we did very much like the town and wanted to live in it. How fortuitous that when we found a house, we found one in Alpharetta. Or did we? Bum-bum-bum!
As it turns out, we did not. We found a house in unincorporated Fulton County that just happened to be close enough to Alpharetta to have Alpharetta as the city for postal purposes. Note I said postal purposes. For any and all other governmental services we're either serviced by the county or the state. No city government for us. This idea apparantly bothered people so they rallied together to get our little neck of the woods made into a city, the city of Milton.
According to the referendum's supporters, Fulton County sucks and because it's so damn long (70+ miles long) there's no guarantee that the money collected by taxes in our area is actually spent in our area. Instead, there's a high chance that it's spent in South Fulton county, a noticeably less affluent area. Add to this the comments made after the referendum was passed that the Republicans in our neck of the woods were annoyed with being constantly ignored by the mostly Democratic members of the county government and my bullshitometer starts blaring.
Linda was opposed to this new city from the get-go, mostly because of the name, a fact that I mock her about at any given opportunity. According to her, no one will know about the city of Milton, but people know what Alpharetta is, and associate it with nice houses, so a name change will only bring our property values down. I find this reasoning somewhat flawed as she forgets the fact that all of the time we lived in Ashburn, our property values only went up and for most of that time, there was a step in the directions to our house that directed travelers to "Take a left at the burned out bank." When we first moved to Ashburn, no one knew where it was. When we left, maybe 3 people knew where it was, and 2 of them (us) were leaving, yet we sold our house for more than double what we paid for. It won't take time for people to learn that we live in a nice place, and there are plenty of nice places around us. Plus, Milton is already talked about as a "rural" area and rural = land, which should attract some cashola.
Her other reason for not wanting us to become Milton, and I agree with her on this one, was that the referendum supporters never gave a good reason for turning us into a new city. Basically, their talking points were something like "Fulton County sucks" and "If we're our own city, you'll have a local government to represent you." My take on this is that a) I haven't seen anything indicating that Fulton County is any worse or better than any other county I've lived in since emerging on this fine planet and b) just because you have a local government to represent you, it doesn't mean it's going to be any good. The city government may end up being just as useless and impotent as the county government. In fact, me being a Democrat, I'd say we just took a step backwards. I also find it odd that this was a push from Republicans, which has traditionally been the party of less, not more, government. Oh well, I guess if you don't like how things are done, rather than try and mobilize voters and getting your own people elected, you can just create your own layer of government to deal with things. If this new government starts making shitty decisions I'm going to become my own town of Brandonia Heights, population 4.
Add to this the fact that once the county isn't on the hook to provide us with services like police and fire protection, we'll all have to pay for it. And how do you think they'll do that? Certainly not with bake sales and raffles, but with higher taxes. I guess it's ok to spend more money on taxes as long as that money isn't going to those filthy, filthy poor people. Curse them and their shitty roads! Personally, I hope to never use the services of either the police or the fire brigade so I was fine with paying less for them to deal with my neighbors to the south.
In the long run, I'm sure it won't make much of a difference to us, other than having to get new address labels and checks, something that also bothers Linda to no end. Sure, our taxes will go up, but I'm sure they would have gone up for something else at some point anyway. What this does do is give me the opportunity to do something I've always wanted to do, namely run for public office. This new town is going to need someone to run it and I'm just the man to do it. I'm thinking Sherrif, but only if I can beat people up in the thoroughfare and/or shoot them. I'm also thinking of running for the office of Commisioner of Personal Transportation. People in my neighborhood use golf carts to get around the neighborhood, despite the fact that you can walk from one end of the development to the other in less than 20 minutes. My first act as Commissioner would be to ban all golf carts for personal, non-golfing use. Then we'll see how they like their new government. Granted this would be an entirely new appointment, of my own creation, but as this whole exercise has shown us, if your government isn't doing what you want it to do, simply create a new level and use it to get things done. My slogan can be "Cackowski-Schnell for Commissioner, Because You Need a Democrat Somewhere Around Here". Remember, a vote for Cackowsk-Schnell is a vote for sausage!
Over the weekend I moved from Sandtown, I loved the sweet landscape of the south fulton county neighborhood. I loved the strong serenity in the area. I feel sad for all those who remain, living in Sandtown will be very uncomfotable from now on. Maybe next time Sandtown will be more proactive. Stop following those who are blind, your children will suffer because you all trust to willingly. What a pity, So sad so sad.
Where did you move? Was the annexation the reason for your move or you had planned to move before. My guess you were already in the process of moving before all of this happened. I agree things are strange now. Driving through does feel different.
No, it actually was a culmination of events that happened to work in my benefit. I moved to the south side of fulton county from sandy springs. I hated the HURRIED hussle of the "folks" on that side of fulton county. Keep in mind, I am not originally from Georgia, I hale from Maryland.
I fell in love with the peace and tranquilty of the southern side of fulton county. I am young and still loved the "action" of atlanta (NIGHTLIFE), I just had no desire to live in "action". I wanted to come "home" to trees and squirrels and flowers and butterflies and peace and quiet...
When I was blindsided by the "real uncohesiveness" of the southside community. I was so devastated that I fell in love with an "illusion". The political debacale/scramble for power, coupled with the upturn in land development made my decision to move from a home I owned less than 2 years an easy one. I am very PROACTIVE AND KNOW WHEN TO CALL IT QUITS.
I will MISS the southside, I am on my way Back to Maryland, where the cities are developed and education is alot better!
I wish you all the best. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. I still love S Fulton and will move into the heart of the area in Cliftondale next month.
Developers are donating land like they did in Walden Park. The hurdle is the funding to actually build the school and getting our school board leadership to listen to the community. We wanted a middle school in Walden Park, but our board member Linda Bryant was against 2 story schools, so the school will be built at Jones Hall where growth is coming as opposed to Clifftondale where growth has already arrived.
Well the school board recently approved a two story elementary school for Union City. That's a change of heart.
Not sure.
The sad thing about this article is that the essence
of it is true. The truth hurts. I just hope this
sets more Black people in motion towards making real
progress. Chris Rock, a Black comedian, even joked
that Blacks don't read.
Help prove them wrong! Read and pass on.
Please Note:
For those of you who heard it, this article Dee Lee
was reading this morning on a New York radio station.
For those of you who didn't hear it, this is very
deep. This is a heavy piece and a Caucasian wrote it.
THEY ARE STILL OUR SLAVES
We can continue to reap profits from the Blacks
without the effort of physical slavery. Look at the
current methods of containment that they use on
themselves: IGNORANCE, GREED, and SELFISHNESS.
Their IGNORANCE is the primary weapon of containment.
A great man once said, "The best way to hide
information from Black people is to put it in a book."
We now live in the Information Age. They have
gained the opportunity to read any book on any subject
through the efforts of their fight for freedom, yet
they refuse to read. There are numerous books readily
available at Borders, Barnes & Noble, and Amazon.com,
not to mention their own Black Bookstores that provide
solid blueprints to reach economic equality ( which
should have been their fight all along), but few read
consistently, if at all.
GREED is another powerful weapon of containment.
Blacks, since the abolition of slavery, have had large
amounts of money at their disposal. Last year they
spent 10 billion dollars during Christmas, out of
their 450 billion dollars in total yearly income
(2.22%).
Any of us can use them as our target market, for any
business venture we care to dream up, no matter how
outlandish, they will buy into it. Being primarily a
consumer people, they function totally by greed. They
continually want more, with little thought for saving
or investing.
They would rather buy some new sneaker than invest in
starting a business. Some even neglect their children
to have the latest Tommy or FUBU, and they still think
that having a Mercedes, and a big house gives them
"Status" or that they have achieved their Dream.
They are fools! The vast majority of their people are
still in poverty because their greed holds them back
from collectively making better communities.
With the help of BET, and the rest of their black
media that often broadcasts destructive images into
their own homes, we will continue to see huge profits
like those of Tommy and Nike. ( Tommy Hilfiger has
even jeered them, saying he doesn't want their money,
and look at how the fools spend more with him than
ever before!). They'll continue to show off to each
other while we build solid communities with the
profits from our businesses that we market them.
SELFISHNESS, ingrained in their minds through slavery,
is one of the major ways we can continue to contain
them. One of their own, Dubois said that there was an
innate division in their culture. A "Talented
Tenth" he called it. He was correct in his deduction
that there are segments of their culture that has
achieved some "form" of success. However, that
segment missed the fullness of his work. They didn't
read that the "Talented Tenth" was then responsible to
aid The Non-Talented Ninety Percent in achieving a
better life.
Instead, that segment has created another class, a
Buppie class that looks down on their people or aids
the in a condescending manner. They will never
achieve what we have. Their selfishness does not
allow them to be able to work together on any project
or endeavor of substance. When they do get together,
their selfishness lets their egos get in the way of
their goal. Their so-called help organizations seem
to only want to promote their name without making any
real change in their community.
They are content to sit in conferences and conventions
in our hotels, and talk about what they will do, while
they award plaques to the best speakers, not to the
best doers. Is there no end to their selfishness?
They steadfastly refuse to see that TOGETHER EACH
ACHIEVES MORE (TEAM) They do not understand that they
are no better than each other because of what they
own, as a matter of fact, most of those Buppies are
but
one or two pay checks away from poverty. All of which
is under the control of our pens in our offices and
our rooms.
Yes, we will continue to contain them as long as they
refuse to read, continue to buy anything they want,
and keep thinking they are "helping" their communities
by paying dues to organizations which do little other
that hold lavish conventions in our hotels. By the
way, don't worry about any of them reading this
letter, remember, "THEY DON'T READ!!!!
Amazing
1) Bill Edwards flips and is against a new city and no comments
2) SFCC sues to stop annexations and no comments
3) Atlanta annexes Midwest Cascade and no comments
Is this BLOG still active?
Thanks to Sandtown for sharing the article from the Business Chronicle. One must admit that the North Fulton officials were playing politics on the statement of all the “spending” going to South Fulton. Those of us in South Fulton can only ask: Where did the spending go? On what service, park facility or infrastructure was money diverted? Understandably, North Fulton has every reason to be frustrated with the BOC but not at South Fulton. If we can avoid being defensive, this article clearly lets us know the shape South Fulton will be in when Milton County is created in two years. Those who don’t see it are simply choosing not to be informed. North Fulton politicians are taking care of their own. We should do the same.
The scenario will read: 2008—Milton County created. 2009- Milton County School District developed. South Fulton School System will also be created by default but without proper funding to attract and keep adequate staff. 2010- The reduced income apartments on Roswell Road which now house the working poor will be privatized to high end condominiums. The government projects existing in Roswell city will become mixed income for diversity sakes. North County gets to keep more of their tax dollars. MARTA and Grady go without.
Do we need to continue the scenario? When will we realize that creating a new South Fulton city is political and economic suicide? Unfortunately, some of the South Fulton politicians were so bent on justifying a city to keep their power base that they could not consider a study to advise the remaining cities on the best land distribution which would be in the interest of keeping South Fulton viable. No, instead, they chose to advocate for one more struggling city in which they could be “in charge.”
We should expect nothing from some of our politicians but their continual self-serving efforts and lack of vision. One would think that our South County School Board members’ legacy could be to make the transition to Atlanta seamless. But advocating for children, and not politics, would be a selfless act and too much like right. Any advocacy for children will be as it has always been up to the children’s parents and community advocates.
Seven Reasons to Vote
Think that this Election Day doesn't matter? Your huge stake this November: Social Security, health care and more.
By Elaine S. Povich
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Think this Election Day doesn't matter? Think again. From the Iraq war to the future of Social Security, from the fate of pension plans to the complexities of long-term care, Americans have a huge stake in politics 2006.
This could be the most important election in a decade, experts say, even though the presidency is not up for grabs. The outcome of the midterm elections of all U.S. House members, 33 senators and 36 governors could determine the course of the nation for years to come.
"This election is about 'Do you like the direction of the country, or do you want a change?' " says Stuart Rothenberg, a nonpartisan political analyst in Washington. "Change, or the status quo?"
The answer to that question lies, of course, in the candidates voters choose. And in sizing up those candidates, voters have a lot of issues on their minds—and many reasons to vote. In an AARP Bulletin poll of 1,000 Americans 18 and older conducted by International Communications Research of Media, Pa., the war in Iraq topped the list of their concerns.
Next in line are the cost of health care and prescription drugs, corruption in government, energy prices and Social Security's future.
Yet those concerns are all overshadowed by the war. While politicians debate how, or when, to extract the U.S. military from Iraq, many poll respondents view the war from an economic as well as an emotional perspective. "The war in Iraq is the biggest thing right now," says Jim Thielen, 49, of Pierre, S.D. "The economy isn't so great, and it doesn't seem like we're accomplishing things over there, and we're spending all this money. I think the money would be better spent here," he says, perhaps to shore up Social Security.
Not every problem will be resolved within the next two years, no matter which party controls the House and Senate. But who sits in those seats might change the way some problems are approached, setting the stage for the political debate of the presidential election in 2008.
Here, then, are seven reasons to vote in 2006:
Social Security
As every beneficiary knows, this year's 4.1 percent cost-of-living increase in benefits all but disappeared because of a 13 percent hike in Medicare Part B premiums and the growing cost of health care. But that's just the immediate problem. With the first of 78 million baby boomers beginning to collect benefits in 2008, many analysts say that in another decade Social Security could begin to pay out more in benefits than it takes in from payroll taxes. Unless Congress acts to assure solvency, by mid-century the system would have enough to pay only three-quarters of promised benefits.
Laurie Lindsey, 24, a single mother and operator of a day care center in her Syracuse, N.Y., home, worries that Social Security won't be there when she's old enough to need it. "We pay into it, and the generation that needs it [now] gets it," says Lindsey, who took part in the Bulletin poll, "and the baby boomers are such a big generation that they will use so much of it that we won't have it when we need it."
Proposals to change the system range from establishing personal retirement accounts, to delaying the age for receiving benefits, to employing a so-called "means test" so that people with incomes beyond a specified level would get reduced payments. Or payroll taxes could be increased, or the amount of income subject to the tax could be raised. It's up to Congress.
Medicare
The health insurance program for the 65-and-older population is facing huge hurdles, including, some analysts predict, bankruptcy of the Part A trust fund (for hospital care) by 2018. It's a problem that has stymied lawmakers of both parties, and prospects for real reform have been remote. The next Congress, however, could hasten the debate to determine the future of Medicare.
The cost of prescription drugs—a huge part of health care costs—is a perennial worry for most Americans, even with Medicare's new Part D prescription drug benefit. A new Congress might provide some relief by allowing the government, rather than Medicare's private insurers, to negotiate prices directly with drug companies or by legalizing medications imported from abroad, if their safety is assured.
"How do we improve the program so it can support the retirement of the baby boom generation?" asks David Certner, legislative policy director at AARP. "A big part of that is lowering costs and making improvements in the delivery of health care."
Long-Term Care
Long-term care is expensive and beyond the means of many Americans. Medicaid, the federal-state health program for low-income people, has become the last resort for many nursing home residents to pay for their care once their savings run out. But the U.S. Senate recently approved cuts in Medicaid by tightening requirements for nursing home care.
Meanwhile, there is a movement toward home- and community-based care, which in many instances is not only cheaper than nursing home care but is also preferred by most older people. But few public assistance programs or insurers pay for home care.
A patchwork of federal and state laws is all that holds long-term care together in this country. And the dependence on Medicaid to pay nursing home bills, AARP's Certner says, shows that the nation really has no comprehensive long-term care program.
Economic Security
Even though Congress passed and President Bush signed the 2006 Pension Protection Act, major flaws still exist in the country's pension systems. Many companies are ending traditional plans, switching to other types of plans or reducing benefits for workers and retirees.
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the federal agency designed to shore up private pension plans, faces ongoing deficits. Combine that with the fact that many boomers have not saved enough for retirement, and there's a potential train wreck on the way. Congress may need to revisit the pension issue as early as next year as the number of companies ditching traditional pension plans accelerates.
Poll respondent Corrine Summers, a 50-year-old retired government worker in Glen Burnie, Md., says having enough money for retirement is a big worry. She has a government pension, but she worries about her husband, 46, and her older children, who are employed in the private sector. "There may not be any money left for retirement," she says. "The steel workers, the railroad workers, a lot of them are in trouble."
Adding to the financial unease for many low-wage workers is the fact that the federal minimum wage has been stuck at $5.15 since 1997. Efforts to increase that amount have so far been derailed in Congress this year, partly because the House decided to tie the wage increase to a cut in the estate tax and partly because of politics. Democrats believe Congress' failure to raise the minimum wage is a good campaign issue.
The sky-high prices for gasoline, heating oil and electricity are another source of anxiety. The question for lawmakers is: How do we develop more or new energy sources while protecting the environment and conserving resources—and without slowing economic growth?
Single mother Lindsey says she needs to look no further for a source of anxiety than her heating bill last winter in upstate New York: $300 a month, as much as the rent on her small apartment. "I'm not looking forward to winter," she says.
Health Care Reform
The U.S. Census reported last month that a record 46.6 million Americans lack health insurance. Despite government and private insurance programs, the number is rising, in part because workers and retirees are losing employer coverage or face higher premiums or copayments they can't afford.
The employer cutbacks are forced by rising health care costs, which continue to outpace inflation.
The trends have also put the focus on the larger challenge of overhauling the U.S. health care system to control costs. Among initiatives that have been stalled in Congress are more aggressive promotion of preventive care and the use of electronic records for assessing treatment and the quality of hospitals.
Rising health costs and inflation are a disastrous combination for the uninsured and poor. Nina Owcharenko of the conservative Heritage Foundation in Washington has written that many Americans "fall through the cracks" in the system, sticking taxpayers with the bill. The question is whether Congress has the will to tackle this problem.
Integrity in Government
Of all of the issues on which to vote, this one is perhaps the most visceral, and one that could lead more voters to a "throw the bums out" mentality.
With two members of Congress guilty of corruption and bribery and others under investigation, the perception is that Congress is for sale. Scandals like that involving lobbyist Jack Abramoff's trying to buy influence (he pleaded guilty in January to three felony counts related to defrauding American Indian tribes and corruption of public officials) reverberate beyond the few lawmakers he touched.
"We do have a lot of corruption in our government," says Leon Rausch, 65, of Dallas, who responded to the poll. "We even have corruption in our church bodies. My goodness."
Presidential Power and Congressional Oversight
A strong Congress or a weak Congress? A strong president or a weak president?
Balance-of-power questions have been around since the Constitution was drafted. In more recent times, President Bill Clinton, in 1997, exercised a line-item veto 82 times to strike down "frivolous" expenditures in 11 spending bills. The line-item veto was ruled unconstitutional in 1998.
President Bush has expanded the president's "universal power" in conducting the war on terror. He has also relied on "signing statements"—more than 100 so far—to state his position on laws he signs. That has effectively vetoed 700 provisions in the bills, say constitutional scholars John Haskell and Kenneth Gold of the Government Affairs Institute at Georgetown University.
Only recently has Congress pushed back, asserting a need for greater oversight.
But political analyst Norman Ornstein of the American Enterprise Institute in Washington points out that the 97 days the House is scheduled to be in session in 2006 is the fewest since Harry Truman derided the 80th Congress in 1947-48 as the "do-nothing" Congress. The 2006 figure compares with a yearly average of 161 days in the '60s and '70s and 139 days in the '80s and '90s.
Aside from the seven reasons above, there are plenty of others—immigration, stem cell research, education, medical malpractice and identity theft, to name a few—to propel voters to the polls.
The undeniable fact in addressing these issues is that the nation's resources are limited. The next leaders in Congress and in statehouses around the country will determine how much of those resources go to government coffers and how government, in turn, spends its money. The Nov. 7 elections are an opportunity for voters to decide who those leaders will be.
Elaine S. Povich writes about politics and economics.
Take the new Survey on the Future of South Fulton County at http://www.southfultonliving.com
This is the opportunity for you to give your opinion on annexation, incorporation and remaining unincorporated.
James Reese
southfultonliving.com
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